How much control should a cache owner have?
I am wondering how much control a cache owner should have over the logs on their caches? Recently a new series was put out and the owner said they were in control of who gets the first to find so one person doesn’t get them all.
First off, who cares FTFs don’t count for squat and for that matter all numbers don’t really count for anything other than keeping a personal record and if they ever do, I will quit.
Secondly how can a cache owner arbitrarily decide who gets the FTF? Things like this are some of the reasons that the “game” is changing, it should be about the journey not the “score”! This will start fights with all the FTF hounds and cache owners, something we don’t need.
My two cents, Rev Slippery
Well, I see the series you are referring to and I have a couple of opinions on it regarding the FTF thing.
For some, and I say some because it really is for some people, FTFs are a big deal. I have heard some horror stories of cachers who are obsessed with them and will go to great lengths to obtain them. I don’t get it but for some people it’s a big deal. If you are in an area where perhaps there are some people who obsess over them, and you want to be able to share the possibility of FTFs for many different people (instead of one person who does the whole series and gets FTFs for all of them) then perhaps you might place restrictions on who claims it. I think in that regard, it is a way of insuring that not one person can claim them all and take away something that is perceived by some as valuable.
My other opinion on it is it seems a little unnecessary. A FTF is the first to find a cache so whether they say you can’t claim an FTF or not, if you are the first person to sign the log, you are the first to find, regardless of whatever logging restrictions the owner has placed. If you track FTFs in your own stats, there’s nothing stopping you from marking all the caches you signed first as FTFs. The owner just won’t allow you to log them that way. Regardless, an FTF is the first person to find a cache and sign the log book. No owner “rule” in a cache listing changes that actual fact. Whether you log it in your online log as an FTF or not, you still are the first to find. That is not up for debate and no matter what a CO puts in their description, it will not change the fact that whoever goes out and does the entire series first will have the actual first to find on all of the caches.
I actually think that by saying you can’t log an FTF, it will actually create more of an issue because people will now argue on who has the actual FTF versus the logged FTF. If someone did get them all in one stretch and their name is first on every logbook, and they put it in their stats, but according to the owner they only have 1 FTF, that could create a bit of an argument between the CO and the original finder. Personally I think it could create a lot more of a problem than it would solve.
I hide my caches so people will find them and I don’t place any value on FTFs or anything else that has to do with numbers. It’s a hide. Go find it. End of story. But for some, there’s more to it and I suspect this is the case with this series.
Hey, you could ask the series owner why they chose to do it?
Also, to further comment on how the game is changing, I think that the key is to play the game your own way and not pay attention to the way other people play. If you let it bother you, then it just brings you down. Just play the way you like and usually you’ll attract others or be attracted to other players who play the same.
When I hear about FTF hounds, and people who see their find count as a score, and those who log fake finds, and blah blah blah, I just shake my head, and keep on playing the way I like to play, and associate with cachers who have similar ethics and it’s worked for me thus far.
FTF…can’t change it, first means first, no matter what restrictions are placed. If someone goes out at the crack of dawn, or middle of night to claim a FTF, then great, good for them. Personally, a few times we’ve make a quick trip out the door, other times not. We watched and when we saw who claimed the FTF, thought good for them. In the end, it really makes no difference.
Our goal is to enjoy ourselves. When caching to us becomes a job or chore, we’re done. If getting out there to have high #’s for FTF’s or total caches counts, then we’re in the wrong game.
It’s not a contest, but there is a winner. The cacher who does it for the enjoyment takes all.
When I was in Ukraine I saw 2 new caches come out not too far away (relatively). They weren’t found during the week, so on Saturday I headed out, hoping to get my first FTFs in a different country. Got to the caches, to find out someone had been there in the morning ahead of me. %P
Getting a FTF is cool, but it’s not something I go out of my way for. I agree with the comments; whoever signs the log first is FTF. If there are FTF prizes, the cache owner could ask that if the FTF finder already has 2 or 3 of them, to leave the rest for others, and I think most cachers would respect that. For an owner though to delete logs if someone gets “too many” FTFs seems like and abuse of the power. If someone wants to put out a series, but not have one person make a run and get all the FTFs, then they should do something like I did with Puzzle Street; some cachers probably got a few of the FTFs, but the difficulty kept them from all being grabbed at once.
I should add that while I don’t usually go out of my way for a FTF, there have been 2 or 3 exceptions when the opportunity arose. 😉
I have gotten a FTF or 2 myself but it was just timing or I was out when the listing popped up on my BlackBerry and I was nearby. My main concern with this this is the possible fighting it could cause and the logistics of it, how would someone know if they are the FTF if there are already a bunch of names on it? There are over 120 caches in the series so the last one will have to be found by 120 cachers before a FTF? I understand what the owner is trying to do, share the fun and with 5 caches it could be done but over 120. How many emails will the owner have to send out telling people to change their logs?
Don’t get me wrong I think it is great that the caches are out there I just see problems with the FTF game. The FTF game is already causing rifts between some cachers in the province already.
I don’t really understand what the cache owner is going to be doing. Is he simply going to stop people from claiming they had a FTF. If so, how will he know that they havent added that cache to their FTF total since there is no way of checking that figure.
Or is the owner going to prevent people from logging a cache that hasnt been logged, if they have already logged another cache as FTF in the series. This sounds a little like an additional logging requirement.
I can understand why this is being done. It is to prevent someone from doing all 140 easy caches in one day and claiming FTF on all of them. I can understand that the FTF hounds would be upset with that but I could care less about FTF. And anyway, if a cacher is FTF because of some artificial rule, are they really FTF?
I just think it’s lame. But it doesn’t really affect me or how I cache, so I guess my vote is a big “whatever”.
while I agree that this FTF game is a bit pointless I dont think it was the intention of the cache owner to delete logs that dont conform. If this is indeed refering to the series I am thinking about, I think it has more to do with FTF prizes than #s. The owner basically stated “do what you want; however, this is what i would prefer”. So go ahead and log them, just leave some of those coffees for me 🙂
All that being said, I do loves me some FTFs!! i have been known to rush out of the house on occasion to grab a FTF. Its not about having more than the next guy, its about having more than i used to have, and about reaching my next milestone. There’s nothing wrong with a little bit of friendly competition, especially when its with yourself. I would never start a rivalry with another cacher because he got the FTF i wanted, or because he found more than me, but i might smack myself on the forhead for missing out on an opportunity for a few more finds.
i think treehugger sums up the FTF game for myself also. and it’s definitely not the intention of the owner to be malicious about it. they’re just trying to even the playing field for those that can’t get out within minutes of a cache being published.
I can agree to that to a certain extent and I’m sure the intention was to keep it fair for everyone, but as the comments on this post show, it can very quickly become something entirely different than what it was intended.
ok, so i headed out yesterday and did part of this series. In the middle of it, while trying to figure out who in our group was going to claim a FTF on which cache, it occured to me that this method of assigning FTFs in no way ensures that 136 different cacehrs will get to claim an FTF. It also does not ensure that a single cacher cannot claim more than one.
The rules are, 1st log on frist cache is FTF, 2nd log and 2nd cache, 3rd log on 3rd cache, etc.
Because this is such a long trail that cannot be finished in one day, for most people anyway, it needs to be done in sections. There are multiple roads that cross the trail, so many starting points. Some people start at one end, while other people start at the other end. Plus, when going in a large group, cachers sign their names in a different order every time. so this may result in something like this:
cache #6 – 7th log
cache #7 – 8th log
cache #8 – 6th log
cache #9 – 11th log.
I guess this is all a little pointless, since FTFs dont ‘really’ matter, but i know that many cachers including myself, do like to be able to claim a FTF. This system was put into place by the cache owner to prevent one cacher from claiming a FTF on all caches, and ensuring that everyone had a chance to claim at least one of them. The end result was just a big headache, since at the end of it all, i have no idea how many, if any, FTFs i was able to claim.
Interesting to hear this coming from someone who has done part of the series. Thanks for the comment
We were part of the group that did some of this series on Sunday with Treehugger and she’s right; after a while we couldn’t figure out who would get what , if any, FTFs on any given cache! LOL We figured we’d let the CO figure it all out.
Having said that, we had a wonderful day. It’s a great trail, the scenery is nice, we watched people lazily tubing down the river, the bugs weren’t bad, the conversation and company was good – what more could we ask for? We got the first 29 of the series plus a couple of older caches and had a nice, unhurried 8km walk.
Whatever you think of how the CO presented this series and their request for FTF-sharing they DID spend the time, energy and money to hide 135 caches along a beautiful stretch of our province so we all could go out and play. Thank you, Viking43.
I agree completely Gwen!