First to Find – What is the meaning?
Here’s a story which I would love clairification on, being a new cacher. It’s all about the dirty word First to Find, which to some is the Holy Grail of Geocaching. As the story goes, I submitted my first set of caches for approval and and only half were approved. Fine I can live with that. I had to go out to the sites again to review coordinates and took an even newer cacher with me. I brought him to an area and he found the caches. At that time, I told him that he should be able to sign as first to find, which he did. These caches were published 2 days later. The cacher that found them after published was not impressed that the logs stated that there was a first to find signed before the cache was published and marked the digital log as FTF. Now, I have gone to many sources for a defination of FTF and this is what Geocaching.com states, “FTF-First to Find. An acronym written by geocachers in physical cache logbooks or online when logging cache finds to denote being the first to find a new geocache.” With this defination, the new cacher was the first to find as it doesn’t state publish. And in other definations that I have found, publish isn’t there either. It’s the physically finding of the cache that gives that holy grail. If someone can find me a published version, I’ll live with that. But in the days before Geocaching.com, there was never a publish. There was a coordinate, a hint and GPS. Now I put it out to you to give me clarification on this, Not just personal point of view, but true facts on this. I have a bad taste in my mouth by telling the new cacher to sign the log FTF but as I read, I was right in doing so. Makes me not want to put out any more caches.
This is going to stir up some debate. First of all FTF claims are meaningless, if they counted for anything they would recorded and tracked online somehow. I have been out with cachers when they hide a cache and have never claimed a FTF and I don’t know anyone who would. Until the listing is published it isn’t a findable geocache, up until that point it is something left out there with a log sheet in it. As soon as it is published on geocaching.com it becomes a geocache and at that point it is fair game. Up until that point it is tupperware in the woods.
The rules you refer to above refer to geocaches and until it is published it isn’t a geocache.
I have just been reminded that there is a huge moral factor in playing this game and so much of it is based on the on your honor system for any finds.
I dont know if there is a written rule or not but the FTF counts only after the cache has been published but everyones honor system in this game is different so mine is more than likely wrong.
So just have the new cacher log online and say he was the FTF. Im sure the other cachers that claimed FTF will retract their claim and return the peanuts. lol
Merry Christmas everyone.
There aren’t any official rules on first to finds, as it’s not an aspect of the game that groundspeak really cares about. I think if your with the finder and shown the cache before it is published, it’s ok to mark it as found, but I would never claim the FTF, personally. I’m not going to presume to tell you what you did was right or wrong, there are so many opinions on first to finds, you could probably write a book. That’s just what I’d do.
To me technically it would not be considered FTF but the other factor was that they were with you the CO when they made the finds. FTF is mostly for some cachers a personal goal, although I like to use it as motivation from time to time to just get out and cache especially if I haven’t had much at the time to do so. I’ve seen other circumstances where this same thing has happened and each plays their own way. A find is a find regardless and it’s great you had a newer cacher with you as sometimes those are the best times to encourage their enthusiasm on a find and witness their excitement. But really FTF is just something we throw in to add to the game especially if it’s an anticipated cache or series that has been rumoured to be published. And yes ZE there is a moral/honor factor to this game and in your explained circumstance the majority seem to agree that their is, oddly you only brought it up in the Freddy group.
In this instance FTF was not logged at Geocaching.com because it was not a true FTF the only place it was noted was on the log book at the cache. We left the glory of the true FTF online to someone who found it thru the website. It’s kinda like planting a cache with someone and signing the log as a find only it was a day after it was assigned a GC number.
When I am with someone when they hide a cache I don’t sign on the first line or page, I go further in to let the FTF to sign the top or first page.
“But in the days before Geocaching.com, there was never a publish. There was a coordinate, a hint and GPS.”
I like this statement, it has me thinking and that can’t be good.
Before Geocaching.com they were not Geocaches, they were called GPS stash hunts on a bulletin board on Yahoo. Since the days of “Geocaching” there has always been a publish date.
Because there are no offical rules for FTF there will be confusion. Everyone has their own idea of what it is. Geocachers who have been at this for a while generally only log a FTF if they find the cache first “After” it has been published on Geocaching.com.
You asked in your post for some clarification. So here it is;
If they are there when the cache is placed with the cache owner they sign the log, usually on the bottom or on the back, but do not claim FTF. If they were there when a cache was checked or to review coordinates, as was your case, before it was published, they would not claim FTF.
If they had any knowledge of where a cache was from a cache owner before it was published, they would not claim FTF.
All the cachers in this area that I know of only claim a FTF on a cache “after” it has been published and on caches they have not seen placed or had been at while placed. That’s the way we “USUALLY” play the game around here. But this is not law and every geocacher does not have to do it this way. I am just telling you how the majority of cachers do it. There are no rules or guidlines or “true facts”. It is all ” personal point of view”.
So no one is really right or wrong in your situation. If you want your geocaching friend to claim FTF, go right ahead. It’s your cache, it’s your right. Most of us log it the way I described above. But that does not mean we are right and you are wrong. It just means we do it a little different. But you do what you feel is right.
I know the first FTF’s are exciting to a new cacher. I hope something like the experience you described doesn’t ruin it. There will be more FTF’s. There will be more new caches published to rush out and get.
Just remember, first to find was something made up by a cacher. It’s nothing official, it’s not in any stats. It’s “NOT” the reason we geocache in the first place.
If you check out the first few logs for Hillbilly Bob’s “Ghost of the Dead Marshes” (GC36JEM), you’ll see that my brother Spidey86 and I claimed co-FTF on this cache on October 31st.
You’ll also notice that Jim52 logged it on November 1st.
What you won’t notice unless you find the cache and look at the back of the physical log sheet is that Jim52 signed the back of the log sheet as “Jim52 NOT FTF!” (or something to that effect). I’m assuming he was with Hillbilly Bob when the cache was hidden. I thought that was very nice of him, to do it that way.
I’ve never been big on the whole FTF thing, realizing that according to Groundspeak there is no such thing, but it was fun to claim this one on Halloween day, especially considering the theme of the cache and the moderate difficulty in getting there in the mud and all. Having said that, I think there are some unwritten / unspoken rules regarding FTF’s, that basically to claim an FTF, one has to discover the cache in the traditional manner (ie the website / alert emails / iPhone or Android app, etc.) and find it, after it has been published.
Given the amount of interest, and judging by threads like this one, there certainly is enough interest and enough opinions about FTFs. Maybe Geocaching.com SHOULD look at some kind of official recognition.
Granted, there would be much more discussion about the logistics, but many (including myself) find it an enjoyable part of the sport/hobby.
There are also caches out there that are only loggeable by those having found X amount of FTFs. As well, there are programs that scan logs to count FTFs from someone’s finds.
Clearly the FTF idea is growing in popularity.
Picknbubbles, another thought….I would encourage you not to give up on placing new caches. Hiding caches is a fun and challenging part of the sport. It is indeed frustrating sometimes when a cache is too close to a puzzle or rejected for whatever reason, but that’s no big deal, just a part of the game.
For me, there is gratification each time I receive an email that someone has found one of my caches. I plan on placing many many more.
So to sum up…alot of personal opinion but nothing written. Also, that a cache is not a cache til it’s published, it’s tupperware in the woods(liked that one!) So I’ll leave the FTF to the ambulance chasers…peanuts for all.