Premium member caches: Good or bad thing? Or just another cache
I have asked myself why were there “Premium member only” caches out there. I really could not see the point. Actually it kinda ticked me off at first. Like if you are not good enough to pay the premium you cannot see this cache. It was leaving a bad impression on me.
Now guess what. The last cache that we’ve put is a Premium member only! Why?
Well, there was a weird wave of geocaching vandalism at one point in the Acadian Peninsula. All geocoin/TB were being stolen, caches destructed or stolen or even way worse (check out GCHNVG where somebody literally urinated in the cache!).
Things seems to be better now, but since the place where I’ve put our last cache is a sanctuary, and I wanted to avoid vandalism in that area, I figured I would put out the cache as premium member only, figuring that someone who would pay an annual premium was not going to urinate in a cache or trash the place.
Now, it also makes me wonder, am I falling into a trap here? I do not want to start to put caches out there only for a certain category of cachers? What do you think?
I have a theory about this wave of vandalism but it’s only me thinking out loud, nothing proven. I know that at that particular time a group of teachers introduced geocaching as part of their yearly program in Phys Ed class I believe (like the orienteering component in the past). Great idea if you ask me. Unfortunately sometimes when you force certain kids into something or if it’s coming from school, it isn’t cool anymore, and they take a “let’s show them” attitude. This goes for a while and then they get tired of it and it stops – I know not all kids are bad but I remember my childhood! Poor mom!! Is this what happened in that period? I do not know, but today because of this and the location where I’ve put the cache, I placed it for premium members only.
What do you think?
I never noticed if any caches I have found were premium or not so it doesn’t matter much to me. I will never hide one, I think they are unnecessary and if someone wants to go around messing with caches they will regardless. I have taken youth out to show them about caching and I always make “fake” caches for them to find or use my own, never someone else’s because like you said it only takes one little jerk to come back and act cool with his fiends and destroy or steal the cache. Many people cache with multiple accounts for each family member and they are not going to make each one a premium one so it is really unfair for people like that. The Viking series in Fredericton is like that so only the person with the membership can find it, the rest of the family is SOL and can’t log it. If I hide a cache it is for everyone not just those who have or can afford the premium membership.
There’s actually a backdoor that allows non-pm members to log PMO caches. GSP is aware of it but leaves it for situations just like what you mentioned.
I was afraid that my message would come across as anti kids or something, which is so totally not my intention. I hope it did not. I cannot count how many times I brought kids out with us, our nephews and nieces, friends’ kids etc etc. Ultimately geocahing if anything should be even more for them than for us old timers 😉 They love going “treasure hunting” with us, and we love to see the fun in their face when they find the cache. I still remember at the last event in Fundy, we were maybe a dozen of cachers if not more with a bunch of kids arriving at the same time at GC27DXH. We all let the kids look for the cache and you should have seen the glimmer in the eyes of the little lady who found the container. SOOOO cute!
I only thought that this wreckage wave might have been done by some not so friendly student, but I may as well be wrong. That being said, I think you all get the reason why I did a premium member only cache in that area (a religious sanctuary). But I also agree that ultimately premium member caches can be so unfair and leave a bad taste in the mouth, as caching should not be only for the one who can afford membership. I guess I am still VERY ambivalent on the subject.
PMO caches. I’ve never listed one but I have done a few and for me, I don’t see the big deal why people think they are bad or elitist.
I think the general idea is that a PMO cache is supposed to be a sort of reward to folks who support the GSP site. If you pay for a membership, you’re likely a bit more serious about caching than one who doesn’t. So if you want to give something back to those who do help keep the site active (by paying the fees), list a PMO cache and that’s the sort of reward.
Something like…
“Hey, since folks who are serious about the game pay the fee, here’s a cache that only you can get sort of as a thank you for helping to contribute to the geocaching community as a whole”.
I don’t think it’s meant to slight families with multiple accounts because the logging “backdoor” is well known by GSP but they won’t fix it because they want folks who really want to be able to log those PMO caches to have a way to do it, they just don’t actively advertise it.
There is also the fact that PMO caches can be audited by the cache owner which means you get to see the username of every user who has ever looked at your PMO cache. That to me is somewhat interesting as well.
I am not sure what this audited section means, but it’s quite cool that you can see who visited your cache! I see that I grabbed the interest of hillbilly bob, so I can look for a visit in the future 😉
Now the weirdest thing, a cacher named signux visited. From germany???
In reference to non geocachers or people going out to destroy or remove caches, I hid 5 caches for the school district in May and a bunch classes went out to find them. I was in the area today and stopped to pick them up. I only found 1 (with nothing left in it, no log book) and 1 other was broken and discarded 15 feet away with nothing left in it. The only people who knew about them were the kids and this was on a trail 5km out of town. The caches were well hidden just like any regular cache so I can only assume it was the kids who took them, that is why you never take a group out to find someone else’s caches.
Thanks for pointing out the “audit log” thing Nemodidi. I now want to turn all my caches to Premium now… Very cool!
The only thing that matters when it comes to PMO caches is it’s a perk promised to paying members. Wether the cache(s) is worthy…the greatest cache on the planet or the crappiest cache on the planet DOESN’T MATTER ! The only thing that matters is that member PAID for a membership and with that paid membership comes the perk of opting to make their cache(s)PMO.
If you pay and you opt to make one or all of your caches PMO then YOUR CACHES SHOULD BE PREMIUM MEMBERS ONLY ! PERIOD ! No backdoor logging for non-paying members ! That’s absurd and fraudulent !
If I purchase a First Class airline ticket and let’s say a few of the perks are a filet mignon dinner, freshly baked chocolate chip cookies for dessert and a bouquet of fresh exotic flowers in the restroom, THAT’S what I expect to get for my money ! Trivial or not, I paid for these things. Now, if I find out everybody in Coach (non-payers), are getting the same perks behind my back even though they didn’t pay for them, am I gonna be pissed off ? YOU BET !!!!
I cannot stand the sneakiness of the backdoor method that allows NON-PAYING MEMBERS to log PMO caches and the fact that the owner of GS created the backdoor method is extremely disturbing ! He’s making promises and taking money from paying members and then going behind their backs pretty much selling them out !
If there’s such a problem with the PMO cache thing, GET RID OF IT ! I would rather see it gone than continue to see the perk/option falsely promised to paying members. THAT’S FRAUD. PERIOD.
I do not agree
People do not get premium membership to get the PMO caches. They get it for the maps, the Pocket Queries, the stats and they also get it to support a company who run the GC website and give us a ton of fun.
Some families have more than one cacher but they only get one Premium membership. They cache as a family and should all be able to claim the caches they find. If a cache is a PMO cache, they should all be able to claim it.
I do not consider this to be fraud or cheating.
I have heard of other caching habits that some refer to as fraud or cheating. I dont worry about them and in fact i do not consider them to be fraud or cheating. We all have different caching methods and some count their finds in different ways. If they count finds differently, it does not give them extra credit or glory. There are no prizes for the number of finds that you have.
So you logged 10 PMO caches and you dont have premium membership,
so you logged 10 caches that you found with a group but didnt actually touch or sign the cache,
so you got 10 puzzles because you went with your buddy who solved them and you didnt,
so you found an archived cache by accident and logged it because you found it,
so you are claiming an event that you hosted,
so you reported a cache as being muggled and the owner tells you to claim it,
so you get to a cache and your pen wont write so you put a penny in the cache and you claim the cache,
so you are part of a caching couple and you dont count your finds the same way as another couple,
so you are with your buddy when he hides a cache, and you claim it after someone logs the FTF
etc.
I DONT CARE. NOBODY IS CHEATING. THERE ARE NO PRIZES AND NO AWARDS. THE NUMBERS ONLY MEAN SOMETHING TO THE CACHER NOT ANYBODY ELSE.
Great post Pa, that is exactly the truth!
I’m with Rev. Great points Pa
I actually think there shouldnt be PMO caches at all.
PMO does give you perks that non members get like pocket queries, notifications and other things and thats plenty to justify the $30/year (soon to increase) fee.
Caches should not be restricted to a few individuals but open to everybody.
If caches get muggles, vandalized, destroyed etc so be it. There is no need to have a cache on every crevice on this planet.
Myself I dont plan to have any PMO caches. I know what a PITA it is to log my other half finds on pmo caches. I dont want others to go thru the same.
PS – I really dislike the feature that allows the PMO owner to see who is looking at their cache.
That option is one of the reasons I have a PMO cache. I think that option should be given to all premium members regardless if it is a PMO cache or not. The PMO cache I do own is on Private Property and I wanted to keep the traffic down and this was best done with a PMO cache. But, I also see the problems they cause but in the end not every cache in the world should be made accessible for every geocacher to find.
Makes no difference to me how people choose to play the game. I play for myself and my friends. I choose to become premium because of the benifits. Premium caches don’t bother me at all. I’ve only hidden around 10 caches myself so far, but I could possible see a hiding a premium cache once and awhile, no harm in the occasional cache. In the end it’s up to the owner of the cache who put in the effort to create and hide it. As long as no vandalism or theft is going on, its fair game in my opinion.
We have hidden over 400 caches. None of them are PMO and I dont think we will ever hide PMO caches.
People don’t pay the $30/yr for PMO caches. They pay $30/yr for Pocket Queries. The rest is just fluff.
True. I geocache exclusively with my iPhone, and generally don’t need PQ’s, but for the odd time I expect to be out of cell tower range, PQ’s are a lifesaver.
I pay my $30 / yr for that lifesaver, the fluff and to see “Premium Member” under my name… And of course to support the site.