Puzzles are a cache hider’s worst nightmare
In the last month, I have attempted to hide 6 new caches. Five of these caches were denied because the final hiding spot of a puzzle cache was nearby and my cache wasn’t meeting the 0.1 mile separation guideline.
I’m not sure about other areas, but Moncton seems to have a very high number of puzzle caches, especially as a percentage of all caches. And unfortunately, many of the fake puzzle coordinates are nowhere near where the final caches are hidden. I’m thinking of the Northwest Trail as one example – one of the puzzles I found there was listed with fake coordinates over 7 km away. I never would have thought to try and solve a puzzle that far away just to ensure that an area was free for me to hide my own cache.
It baffles me that Groundspeak has not yet implemented a coordinate search box. I know there is some concern that someone would use the box to try and cheat to solve puzzles, but I don’t think that needs to be the case. Before I go out to hide a cache, I’d like a spot on the website to be able to enter the coordinates I intend to use. The website could return one of the following:
Green Light • Area is available for a cache to be hidden
Red Light • There is a physical cache container from a multi or a puzzle within 0.1 mile of your coordinates and the area is not available for a cache
However, without this in place, time and time again I seem to go out to hide a cache, only to be told I need to go back out and move it because the final location of a puzzle is too close by.
Until such time as Groundspeak implements the coordinate search box I mentioned above (and according to their website, they are planning to), I am going to go out on a limb and recommend that puzzle caches not be hidden on popular trails in city limits. I think it’s a shame that a popular new spot like the Northwest Trail can’t be easily cached by anyone because the puzzle caches on the trail are listed so far away that you’d have to stumble upon them by accident. And as someone who enjoys hiding caches, it is awfully frustrating to think an area is free for a new hide when it isn’t.
I agree with you, heathtree. According to the guidelines, puzzle cache dummy coordinates should be within 2 km of the actual cache location (for this reason, and to try to keep mileage on trackables accurate) – and, to be frank, it always irks me a bit to find puzzle caches located much further away. I, too, (and I’d hazard just about anybody else who’s tried to hide several caches!) have been turned down for this same reason.
As far as your suggestion is concerned, it has been suggested several times to Groundspeak (both on the forums, and through the “old” feedback site). The response is, more or less, that there are those who would use that system to “force” the location of a puzzle to be revealed, continually checking until they narrow the coordinates sufficiently to find the cache.
Of course, there is a simple solution to this, but it makes it harder to hide series: only allow the function to be used (say) 5 times in 24 hours, like the pocket queries. Want to hide more than that in a day? Go for it – but, you lose that function.
That’s my suggestion. I even tried making it in the forums once, before the ill-fated feedback site was created. It was eaten alive and spat out by the caustic forum regulars. :p
I have brought this up many times as well, either in here or in the Podcast. I also heard a rumour about something like you mentioned for checking coordinates but have not seen anything yet. I too think that having a series of puzzles on a popular trail or park and having the seed coordinates miles away is not the best idea, even if the description of the puzzle states it is on the trail or in the park.
I move all puzzles caches be banned, present and any for future consideration. 😉
BTW, did I mention I hate puzzles? Thankfully caching is a game where we play what, when and as hard as we individually like.
You could always post it on another site or let it become GeoTrash 😉
6 tries at setting a cache out in the Moncton area before I said “screw it” and placed the cache in Sackville… Damn puzzles at each of the 6 locations.
We try to place our puzzles in groups in Industrial parks or other uninteresting places such as ugly dirt roads next to a main highway. Belladan did that with his Dog series. We try and leave the nice places for traditional caches. However when I mentioned this in the Ottawa forum, many said they prefer having puzzles in really nice places as a reward for solving the puzzle. So I guess you cant please everybody.
We had a series of puzzles on a trail in Bouctouche, but we have now archived them and Belladan is placing traditionals there.
Definitely a good point. I think it’s a great plan to put puzzles like that in less interesting places – but, to appease the other viewpoint, I like one of the other suggestions above. If your series is on a trail, mentioning in the puzzles that they are located on that trail would be of help to future hiders.
But, of course, can’t please everyone! 🙂
If you don’t do puzzles or read all the puzzle listings it still won’t help when hiding a cache if the map looks clear in the area. The geo-art we have around is an example of the icons being too far away from the caches so who would think of or want to check all of them trying to figure out where the actual cache is? Long dirt roads or city trails are very inviting to new cachers for hiding when many of the areas in town are taken or look full.
That is why I said ugly dirt roads along a main highway. There are some inteeresting dirt roads that I would not use, because of the views, or the woods, or the quiet, etc, but a road next to the TCH is good for puzzles in my opinion
I agree with Heathtree that there should be a way to check if an area of “safe” to place the geocache. It can be frustrating when you put a lot of time in to a hide and have to pick a new spot. I do like puzzles and am glad there are part of the game, it’s just another thing to deal with when hiding a cache.
I would like to address two of the points mentioned in some of the above comments regarding the location of puzzle caches.
POINT #1 DISTANCE BETWEEN THE PUZZLE CACHE LOCATION AND THE FAKE COORDS
Generally the distance should be less than 2 kms. This rule gives cacher hiders an idea of the cache location so that they can find room to place a cache. The reviewers usually adhere to this rule but have made an exception in cases where a cacher wishes to create geo art. In those cases, the fake coordinates make a design on the geocaching map. This only works if those fake coordinates are in an area where there are no caches. Of course this also means that the fake coordinates are a lot further than 2km from the actual cache locations.
I am aware of three cache series in NB that use Geo Art. In all three cases, the cache owners were obviously aware of the situation regarding distance and addressed it on the cache pages.
Here are examples from all three series, with the cacher’s name and quotes from the cache pages
Belladan
All caches are hidden along service roads that parallel Highway 2. One section is just outside of Moncton while a second section is found between Memramcook and Sackville.
Jim52
Cache is located in the Mapleton Park area.
Cache is located in the Northwest trail area ( part of the Moncton Millenium Trail )
K57
The cache is located near Woolastook Park.
The cache is located in or near Mactaquac Park.
POINT # 2 PLACING A PUZZLE SERIES OF CACHES ON A HIKING TRAIL.
I mentioned that we do not usually place a series of puzzle caches on trails. One exception was our puzzle trail series of ML caches in Bouctouche. That series has now been archived and been replaced by traditional caches by Belladan.
I think that many of the complaints about puzzles on trails relate to Jim52’s caches on the Millenium Trail in the Moncton area. Most of these caches are on the trail in the Harrisville area and in the Northwest of Moncton. It must be remembered however that Jim had placed traditional caches on these trails when the trail first opened, and introduced many of us to these trails.
For example Jim had placed 20 traditional caches on the Northwest trail when it was near completion, between December 2009 and March 2010. The logs will show great adventures by local cachers and by many cachers from away. When Jim archived those caches in order to place puzzles, each cache had around 60 finds. They were logged by virtually every cacher in the area.
The puzzles have now been out for nearly one year, and have each been logged by around 40 cachers. The logs show cachers going out in groups to get the caches. So essentially Jim has brought the area cachers twice to this trail system to get caches. I think that is quite an accomplishment.
With regards to Jim’s series, I think it’s good to point out the fact that a regular series of caches did exist on this trail previously and that the puzzle caches along there now are merely the second round of caches to appear there.
I also agree that the puzzle situation in certain areas can make it more difficult for new hiders (or even old ones) to find spots to hide caches. I too think a tool to validate your hide locations would be useful but maybe not as useful as you might think.
What do most people do when they hide a cache? They find a spot they like, go out, hide the container, mark the coords, and create the cache listing. Even if we had a tool to check coords, it would not remove the need to go back and move the cache again and again. Most people have a rough idea but not an exact location when they go out. Unless you know the coordinates BEFORE you go out, the tool isn’t going to be too helpful in preventing you from doing multiple trips.
For those who plan carefully, it can help, but the need to go out, retrieve your container, and hide somewhere else, is not necessarily going to go away with such a tool. I agree that it can help, but I think it wouldn’t help as much as some might think.
I agree that some kind of tool to help would be really useful otherwise you have no idea how close you cam be to a puzzle cache. Because a puzzle cache can be anywhere, i guess the 2 km rule doesn’t really help
Hey maybe I should sell Micro Logic Coordinates on Kijiji