The future of Cache Up NB
Every once in awhile I put up an item on here to address certain things about this website specifically. I’ve tried very hard to insure that Cache Up NB always has recent content, and tries to showcase a community of cachers in a way that is not-so-typical for geocaching websites.
With things such as hosting the Come Out & Play Contest, live blogs, status ticker, random caches, calendar of events, chat, and other features, Cache Up NB has always tried to be less like everyone else, and stand out as it’s own community. Thanks to the hard work of our community members, I believe we’ve done a great job.
That having been said, there’s always more that can be done. I’m always trying to come up with some new ideas and different ways that I can engage the users of our site. I’ve got some cool new things coming in the near future and I hope you guys like them.
When Cache Up NB first launched in 2010, I was asked if advertising would ever become part of this site’s content. At the time, I was very much against it as I didn’t want our users to be bombarded by ads that were intrusive to the material being read. I still feel the same way about intrusive advertising but as the site continues to grow, so does the cost.
Many folks may not realize it but there is an actual financial cost to run a site like this. No, the cost is by no means expensive, and until now, I have been fine with footing the bill (I can provide exact cost amounts if you are interested). I added the donation link at the bottom of the page, and some of you have indeed made gracious donations (thank you) which have been put directly on costs associated with the site. In fact, some of the money received went directly towards something that will be released in early 2012.
But as things continue to grow here, I find myself wanting to give the community more and more and for some of those items, there is a financial cost associated with it. Thusly, this brings me to where I am looking for feedback from our community in how best to move forward. I do not feel that it should be my decision alone to decide so I am asking for your sincere opinion on how we should proceed.
I have considered adding a small block of geocaching related advertising in some sections of the site. This could be used to generate some revenue to help keep the site moving forward. I would however make a solemn promise to you that I would never place any advertising within the main body of any news item, or anywhere within the comments. To me, that would feel too intrusive and be more annoying than anything else. The idea is to generate revenue, not irritate our community.
The revenue generated by the advertising would be used to pay for the cost of hosting the site, and also be put towards other Cache Up NB projects. Things such as geocoins, lanyards, shirts, and other merchandise would be easier to produce for those who are interested if we had some base revenue to use to get things made.
The money could also go for prizes at events, donations to local trail providers, and lastly, the money could also be used to help fund special projects for Cache Up NB readers. Whether it be apps for your iPhone/Android, or special features we integrate into the site, for some of those things, there is a cost involved.
So the real question to you, the members of this community, would the presence of advertising on Cache Up NB have an affect on whether or not you continue to visit, and contribute to this community? Do you have any alternate means of raising some money to help offset these costs? Please do not hold back in your comments to this. I want to know exactly what you think, what your concerns would be, and any ideas you may have. Remember, I’m not trying to get rich here. I just want to try and offset some of the costs I’ve incurred (especially lately with some of the new stuff I want to provide) in having this community.
Please, let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
– Matt (Zor)
As long as the ads would not POP UP in our face when we do not want them, I have absolutely NO issues with ads. In fact, if those are for geocaching supplies, hiking equipment, outdoors, it might even be interesting! I say Go for it. Again as long as I can decide to click on the thing only if I want to and that if I do it will not open up 10 other pop up sites like on certain other sites……Don’t ask which! 😳
An alternate means of raising some money would be to ask Rev to bake cookies, but I saw his talents when he tried to cook bannock so all in all you’re better going for the ads.
Actually yeah, another thing that bugs me about adverts is the ones that pop up above your content, have a really small ‘x’ that is not in the upper right, and moves around making it hard to close. And advertisements that play audio.
I’ve left some sites that implemented them. I’d be watching a movie or something while playing on my laptop, would have no sound going on the computer, then all of a sudden a huge loud “Hellllloooooo” from an incredimail advertisement. And I frequently browse with 10 tabs open, so finding which it’s coming from is a bugger.
I wouldn’t see any issues if it if the advertisements were two things:
1: Small – I wouldn’t really want to have to scroll down to get past an advert just to read content. And where we wouldn’t really have control of the advert content, having it too big would throw off the color scheme
2: Relevant – If the links were for geocaching supplies providers, or something similar, no problem. But I get blasted with enough penis enlargement advertisements in my junk mail, that I’m covered in that department.
Assuming those were two main concerns, I would have ZERO problem with seeing them, and wouldn’t feel they would take away from the site.
Dude, you just gave me a good laugh this morning with the enlargement comment. Thanks 🙂
And I hate those pop-up/close with an X ads. Any advertising added here would not be of that type at all.
That’s what I’m here for 😀
As I read this there is a big blue space to the left of my screen that could be filled with advertisements. I enjoy adds as they introduce me to things I would not normally find on my own. That being said only if they are off to one side or fit and look well with the site. In no way should it interfere with scrolling or the speed to load a page etc. As a Facebook user I’m very tolerant to adds but when I get a scrolling bounce or it takes forever for a video add to load, I can feel my blood pressure rising. The only thing I would not want to see is adds that are not related to this site. I don’t need to see the latest sales at Victoria Secret even if they are easy on the eyes. I would welcome Canadian sites that deal with Geocaching, GPS, Hiking, Survival, Trails etc. It would also be nice if local New Brunswick stuff got first priority…
Zor, you know where I stand and I know what you plan to do so I am all for it, knowing how it can change the site for the better. The ads we are talking about here would be banner style and will not makes sound, move or make you click on it to get to the site or post. The ads will be relevant and if you do click on them it will make the site more money. If you do add them will you be able to remove them quickly if needed?
If I do add them, the plan is to be very modular in their implementation. What that means is that I would plug them into specific areas and if they don’t work well in those areas, I unplug them just as easily.
I actually think for starters it would be either a banner at the top (much like our contest banner now), or a widget on the right near the top with an ads, or a combination of the both.
The specifics need to be worked out after feedback is received.
I think a banner on the right just below the random cache would be good. That banner at the top, I looked at it and imagined it being an advert, and it just didn’t seem right. That should be a CUNB banner or special event banner like the COAP contest.
I have no problem with ads down the side of the page, or at any other location that Zor thinks would not be intrusive.
With regard to content, I agree that the best would be geocaching suppliers or outdoor suppliers. However, if a local car dealer, electronic firm, law office, etc, wants to pay for an advert, why should we resist.
I have complete faith in any decision that Zor makes regarding the type and content of ads.
I think the adds will be from Google, “they” will read our site for key words and supply ads that match, I don’t think that Zor has the time or interest to approach local businesses for money for ads. It would be like the ads on the side of Facebook, have a look at them next time to see how they match your posts, pretty close. The ads will probably rotate every time you bring up the page. If we talk about Whoppers we will get links to Burger King or Nemo’s site…..lol
Ah, I see, he’s thinking about using google Ad Sense. Has he checked how many click through’s are needed to generate revenue with their system? I hear they have ways to monitor is so I can’t sit for an hour and just keep clicking to create revenue.
Next time I am on facebook, I will check it out. Like in 2018.
I mentioned local ads cause I thought I had seen local car ads on Newschaser’s channel on Youtube.
If you are going via the google ads route, then you will have to generate a lot more view & clicks in order for it to be worthwhile revenue source.
Google has also clamped down on the “cheating” that can occur within the last year, to the point of suspending the adsense accounts. However, you don’t always need to click on the ad to get revenue, just get a view. At best you will be able to generate between 1-3$ per 1000 clicks.
If you want to keep the ads relevant & local, you might want to consider selling ad space yourself to select “sponsors” for the top or side banner. A flat rate for X page impressions or annual subscription may yield better results.
ACGA tried both methods (google ads vs selling banner space) and selling banner ourselves method worked better for us in the early years, that allowed us to get some projects going.
But community based projects like calendar, geocoins always did better.
I actually like some ads that are small and relate to the content of the page.
Ads on websites don’t bother me, I prefer the banner style but anything that can help the CUNB cause, I am up for.
Do whatever you feel is necessary. The burden of cost should not fall completely on your shoulders alone.
It’s best to implement something now while your in your growth mode, makes it easier for implementation since you have the open spaces necessary. As long as the page isn’t junked up as well. As with everything keeping it free is always only a short term possibility and as growth and popularity occur so does the cost. Do what you need and it will pay dividends so you can add new content and options thus keeping the growth occurring. It would be great if it could be kept to a majority of local biz and geocaching related detail.
Ok, very interesting post and thread. I’ll throw in my 3 cents worth.
First of all, I hadn’t even noticed you had a donate icon at the bottom. I think you need to make it more visible that you are accepting donations, make the user community feel like they have an opportunity to contribute to the site to help maintain it and grow… But without making people feel guilty if they don’t donate. Like as much as you own the site, built it and maintain it, it’s nothing without its users so in a sense, the local geocaching community sort of owns the site, and you are its custodian. Wikipedia does this but sometimes they’re a bit too in-your-face about it with a big half-page ad with “an appeal from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales” or whatever.. But maybe something just a little bit more visible. And maybe make it so when someone is logged in and makes a donation, it would automatically turn off the “ad” soliciting donations for that person for a period of say 3 months.
On a side note, I just donated $10, now that I know the link is there and that there is a need. 🙂
Secondly, I see a few mentioned Google Adsense and have a good point about the revenue per click being very low – I’ve heard the same, that you have to have a big site with massive amounts of traffic to make it worthwhile. Here we’re a community of what, 30 regular posters maybe? 100 people that visit the site on a steady basis? (no idea, I’m just making these numbers up) If 3% of people click on an ad on any given day, that’s not going to do much.
I think that making arrangements directly with specific vendors, although more time consuming, would probably give you more revenue per click, and would give you full control over the ads. You could try Canadian geocaching supply vendors, outdoor equipment vendors, etc. and maybe local businesses, whether they cater specifically to geocachers or just to regular people.
Case in point, I’m in the process of starting a business doing a combination of handyman/carpentry/small engine mechanic work. Once I have my business name I’m going to need a website and facebook page, and once I have that, I’m going to need to find creative ways to drive traffic to those. If you do decide to go the route of approaching vendors directly, and decide to include non-geocaching vendors, please get in touch with me. I’d definitely be willing to pay a lot more than Google Adsense would pay out since each click can potentially generate a $200 to $3000 sale for me just like that. (maybe I can advertise to offer to build custom cache containers? hahah!)
Anyway, I’m done now. Sorry for the lengthy post. 🙂
Guys, I want to extend a big thank you for the support here. I sort of hoped I would hear what I have seen here but it’s very reassuring to see it in print.
All of the comments and suggestions given here will be taken into consideration for the new year. I’m leaving this post open for now so if anyone else has comments they can feel free to add.
One thing I will say is that any changes related to advertising will not be seen until sometime in the first quarter of 2012.
Thanks again
HMM, I’m curious to see what you have in store for us in 2012.
I don’t oppose ads, they keep papers, magazines, TV and sites such as this going. What I do hate are those things that shutter, wiggle and promise me I am the 555,000 visitor and I’ve just won $$$$$$, all I need to do is click on the ad, yeah right!
You’re a savvy guy, and I trust you know what is best to keep this site going , and thanks for being gracious enough to ask our opinion. You do a fantastic job and I applaud you.
I was doing some research about Google ads and it looks like Jim Cyr is right. We would need our monthly hits to be daily hits just to break even for the basic website cost, which isn’t much. You have to make $100 in the year before they will even pay out.
The are many different options and different things to explore but I am taking steps now that will help with both the Google stuff and other things. Work in progress. When the time comes, I think it will work out fine.
Good because I like new cool stuff.
I, too, have no problem with ads if they’re unobtrusive and not annoying. But will they generate much in terms of funds for you to use? How many members does CUNB have and how many “clicks” would be needed?
I’m just throwing this out there but what about having a fundraising week or month where one of the admins promotes it and urges members to use the “donate” button (thanks for moving it, by the way, now we’ll see it way more often!). We could have a thermometer that fills up like the signs you see for different groups fundraising, if you have a specific amount in mind. I know that you hate to ask people to donate so let us do it for you! Jim mentioned the ACGA and the coins and calendars they do and that might be a bit too much work for what you need but an annual fundraising drive would be relatively easy to implement, I would think.
Personally, I have no problem helping out. You have made this site feel like home and a place to share caching with like-minded addicts. You have done sooooo much for us, with creating everything for and hosting the COAP contest here. It has made it so much easier for both us and the players. Our thanks can never be enough, but you have them anyway.
Thanks for the nice words Gwen.
In fact, since posting this story, I have already received enough donations to offset one of the costs I recently put out (around $100) for something in the near year. The fact that you guys are already so generous is just amazing. BIG thanks to everyone.
I’m new to Cache Up NB but I have already become dependent upon it, to check out what’s happening in the local caching community. I have to say, Zor, that I’m glad that you wrote this post, otherwise I would have had no idea how the site was maintained or funded. I agree with Milosheart’s proposal that we do some fundraising and would be more than happy to help out in that regard. I was just commenting to Herr Minnz on how quickly we have been made to feel a part of this wonderful geo-caching community and how it has become such an important part of our lives. We appreciate so much everything that you do, and all of the others that make such phenomenal contributions simply to promote this amazing sport and ensure a quality caching experience for the benefit of the rest of us. I would certainly like to give back in some way. For now, I’ll simply wish everyone a Merry Christmas and make my gift a donation to Cache Up NB. Happy Holidays!
p.s. Glad you moved the Donate button, I had never noticed it before.
I had never noticed the Donate button before. I do love this page. It’s full on info and it’s about us, here, in NB.
Zor, your efforts to put that podcast on everymonth and keeping this updated is very appreciated. And I know that it’s probably going to be the last Racing for cache next summer (I will be very sad to see this end) but I do recognize that it is quite a task to put together. I want to take the time to say THANKS!!
As for the orignial question, I’m not really a fan of adds but when I need geocaching stuff, I usually go through the geocaching.com site and pick a distributer there. I would much rather do this from this site. I don’t find the ads very intrusive. I don’t notice all that much, except when I have some cash to spend or when I need a specific item.
Anyway, just my thoughts…
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ADS, but I noticed that this site is getting a lot more posts and comments than the two other area geocaching sites. Nice to see that
I noticed as well and most of the post here are about Geocaching, while the others seem to be more about other things, like hiking, hammocks or camping gear or nothing at all.