To reply or not to reply?
Have you ever received a log on one of your caches and you have an overwhelming desire to fire back a reply to the finder? Sometimes I get a log that is just screaming for me to say something. This reply could be as simple as answering a question or a desire to delete the find all together. I have no problem with an honest complaint or a simple found log but if you tell me it was too cold, raining, busy to sign the log the cache you are just asking for it. I would rather the finder just say they found it instead of telling me that they just saw it. I have put out 4 caches in an attempt to get people putting some “meat” in their find logs but I still get the dreaded TFTC. I know that I will never rid the world of poor logging but it is one of my few pet peeves, along with poor maintenance from people with hundreds of hides.
I realize this may not be that big of a problem but it is a vital part of the game to me and is one thing that as a hider makes the hard work all worth it. I love getting an email for one of my caches and then to get a crappy log just bugs me. We have many post in here talking about the great logs we sometimes get, now lets give some examples of logs that don’t cut the mustard, just for laughs if anything.
Oh yeah, should I send a polite email to them or let it be?
I thought of something completely different when I saw the title (and opening paragraph) of this rant. We hid a few caches this week that we’ve been working on for the last couple of months. Two of them are quite unusual, and we specifically left out the details about the caches on the descriptions. (They are http://coord.info/GC38YPA and http://coord.info/GC38YPK)
Several times now, especially on the first few logs, we actually have decided to email those who wrote logs with spoilers in them, asking them to remove the spoiler from the log. Today, I added the text stating that we might delete logs with spoilers in them (though I have no intention of actually deleting a log!). I also decided to start encrypting logs with spoilers.
Like Rev, I, too, wonder if that’s the way to go – or if I should simply let it go. Though, these caches are a lot more fun if you don’t know *precisely* what you’re going to find.
Like I said elsewhere, I accept all the logs on our caches, whether it is a simple TFTC or a log indicating that they did not sign.
However, lately there have been a number of spoilers posted by an experienced local cacher. They have not been posted on any of ours, so I do not have to make a decision yet, but I would certainly be upset, and might delete the log and have the cacher log again.
A similar situation has been on going in Ottawa where a couple of well known cachers, take pictures of all the caches, which sometimes can ruin the find in cases of well camoed containers. Yesterday we grabbed a cache that had a three foot long spring action toy snake which jumped out when you opened the container. When I checked online, a cacher had posted a picture of the snake. Kind of ruins the cache.
I thought Rev had poted this item and now it says coopsquared
I was thinking the same thing! I was going to blast him into oblivion, but now that it’s coopsquared and they are nice, I won’t 🙂
Very strange… for I only replied to it. Rev was the original author of the post.
I managed to change it back. I do not know who did it, but seems person needs access to dashboard
That was my fault. For some reason coop’s comment went into moderation so I got an email for it. When I saw the email, I saw it was for coop so I thought he had submitted a post, not a comment (since coop normally doesn’t get flagged for moderation). When I went into the post I saw Rev’s name so I changed it thinking the system had put Rev’s name on the post for some reason.
When I saw the messages in the scribbles I went back through my email and saw that it was indeed a post from Rev and just a comment from coop.
My bad.
Zor, how does moderation work? Is it user flagged?
Moderation is actually very simple on here. Here’s how it works.
– Only users who are registered and signed in can comment
– The first time a registered user comments, their comment is held for moderation
– Once you have had a comment approved, you should not need to be approved/moderated again
– The only exception is when a comment contains two or more links. Those comments are held for moderation to prevent possible spam links from sneaking in. This moderation does not apply to users who are able to approve/decline/moderate comments.
There are a handful of users who have the ability to moderate comments but generally myself or Rev catch them right away.
Generally, once you have had a comment approved/moderated, you never need moderated again unless you have two or more links in your comment. It seems to have worked pretty well.
Now mind you, I’ve been seeing a lot more spam submissions come in lately so if the current controls aren’t enough, we may need to bump them up a bit.
Back to the original subject. Yes, more than once I have been tempted to reply to crappy, obnoxious, or just plain wrong logs. Petty complaints really bug me. Leaving “Needs Maintenance”, for a slightly damp log sheet, or for a log sheet that is nearly full send me up the wall.
Do I reply? Only if I get to it before Mr. CD, he is way nicer than me.
When we cache we do leave copy and paste logs for a series or a trail, BUT, the first log is always a thank you and a bit of a detailed description of our day. Then I mention I will be copying and pasting the rest.
It just takes a minute to relay our thanks for someone’s hard work and dedication to this game.
I understand all caches must have a log sheet and it must be signed to count as a find. Pretty simple and straight forward. While in town we stopped to do a cache, yep there it is but, no pen. Nada, not a freekin pen, pencil or piece of one to be found. So, no sign the log, no claim the find. Nothing too difficult to about that, well except listening to Mr. CD complain…..and try to blame me for taking his pen out of his car. Imagine !!!!!
I have had a couple of rare occasions where I have replied. I sent a courtesy message to one user telling them about the whole short log thing and how in the future they might consider giving a full on log. They never emailed me back.
I think in most instances, it’s probably better to just let it go. Deleting or replying will likely turn into something more than it’s worth, but I can certainly understand one’s frustration with certain types of logs.
Did you check their recent logs to see if maybe they accepted your suggestion?
I have no issue with a “needs maintenance” log for a damp log or a log about to be all filled up. In fact, I love it. It’s a warning for me to go and maintain my caches up to the standards that I believe a cache should be.
Now for a log that states: “We saw the cache but it was too cold to get out of the car”, do I reply or not?
Not that long ago I would have, and would have probably deleted the log, but I’ve changed my mind about this. Those people are not “cheating” me, they are just cheating themself, so you know what, so be it! I do not care anymore.
I love the nice long “chatelaine” type of log (who doesnt!); I still feel a bit bitter about the blank log; and I find so stupid the “it was too cold to get out of the car, TFTC” smileys… but I decided to just ignore the later two.
I haven’t stumbled upon weird logs lately, but when I do, I will post it here as you say: just for a good laugh. Each time this topic comes up, I do remember this one though: “I drove by but did not have time to stop, I will another day, TFTC”…and he claimed a smiley! LOL This one is still on top of my list 🙂
There are a number of geocachers who enjoy the hobby but who do not frequent forums or other user sites and may not be aware of all the GC.com guideline. As a result they may not know what is considered appropriate, or acceptable, or ethical and they may not know the things that frustrate some of us.
For example, there is a group around here who often cache together but usually logged with TFTC. I am sure there was no intent to frustrate anyone. Slowly but surely the logs started to get a little more detailed either as a result of an email or because they felt more confortable doing logging.
A newbie cacher logged a find on one of our caches and indicated that the log was a little moist. He also put a NEEDS MAINTENANCE log. I wrote a nice note explaining that as a cache owner I get an email for all the finds and that the found log was enough to alert me to the situation with the cache. I explained how a needs maintenance log triggers possible action by the reviewers and that usually those logs are best kept for caches that are in more serious trouble. I reeived a nice response from the cacher.
There are some newbie cachers who have not signed logs in a few situations, for various reasons. They are not being deceitful as they actually indicate their non-signing in their log. I suppose someone should write a little note explaining that there are valid situations where it may be acceptable to not sign, such as when the log sheet is pulp but that not signing because it is cold out, may not be acceptable to some cache owners. A suggestion about bringing logs sheets and baggies with them, might be helpful.
But for us, we accept the logs, no matter how short or questionable they might be, but we certainly love the nice logs talking about their enjoyment of their caching day or of the cache.
And here is a suggestion for cases where you forget your pen or it is a ROGERS pen that goes dry: How about placing a penny in the cache, note the year of the penny online, and ask that the next cacher verify the date, and sign our name?
Pa, you said it better than me about the Needs Maintenance thing. I totally agree, needs maintenance is for a bigger issue than a nearly full log sheet.
And if you would lend poor ol’ me a penny, I’ll give it to Mr. CD next time he thinks I took his pen 🙂
Seldom on this site since I started, wasn’t even sure what it was about. This is my first post I often just sign TFTC to acknowledge the owner that I found it and thanks. Those 4 letters say alot.Ususally if I write more its because of the container, the hide, the scenery, the weather or something I find interesting about the site. I take pictures of all my finds but do not post them, they are there for me to look back at and they jar my memories of that day. I did not think I was being disrespectful by only saying “thanks”. Its a word seldom used in the real world. So far geo caching has taken me to some interesting places, and other times just the woods, but the fresh air is good and it gets me out of the house. Everything has a learning curve, my 3 finds for this morning were, 2RQCP, TX58 and 1BC29. I carry several pens and spare logs when out, wasn’t sure at first if I dared add a log or baggie without offending the owner. I haven’t seen any rules of conduct for geocaching so have been walking lightly.
Welcome
Log a cache anyway you want. If you want to simply say TFTC, just do that. If you have something to add about the place the cache or the trip, the cache owner likes to hear that you liked the hide.
Carrying log sheets and baggies to repair caches is a great idea. Some cachers have a lot of caches hidden and may not be able to get to a cache too quickly. Having someone do minor fixes is always appreciated. Mention the repair in your log so the owner is aware of the situation.
If you have any questions, we are here to answer them
I’ve repaired many caches and always log the find and then send the owner an email, stating that I have repaired the cache. The only time I will send a need maintience is if the cache needs to be moved due to enviroment reasons or the cache is gone completely. I have never had a negative response from a cache owner, always a thank you.As for the logs, I am as guilty as the next doing a cut and paste answer but then again, it depends on the cache. If there is some thought in where the cache is located or something that makes it stand out, I’ll note it. For a series of P&G’s on the guardrail, if I was the owner I’d expect a cut and paste, too. I was mentoring a new cacher the other day and noticed that he only put a smiley face as a log. I called him and said this…People have gone to the trouble of laying the cache and probably took out of their pocket to put the trinkits that you enjoyed. The least you could do is write something” So I know exactly what you guys are saying.
Pa, I can read between the lines, Ha! I’m saving you a refill.
To those who don’t care about cachers using excuses like “it was to cold to get out of the car” and allow their find to remain. I will point you to this….”3.1. Logging of All Physical Geocaches
This page is an extension of our Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines.
Physical geocaches can be logged online as “Found” once the physical log has been signed. …..”
and if you do decide to delete and i believe there are cases where it’s warranted…
“6.8. Log Deletion
Logs can be deleted by the owner of the log, by the owner of the listing (the cache owner) and by site administrators. Logs that fail to meet stated requirements (such as Found It logs by people who have never found the cache) or logs that conflict with our Terms of Use Agreement may be deleted.
When a log is deleted, the owner of the log receives an email that generally looks like this:
[LOG] Log Deletion Notice
Your log entry for the listing Name of Listing (Cache Type) was deleted
by User Name at Date and Time
Visit this listing at the below address: listing URL
Profile for Deleting User: user profile URL
The deleted log can no longer be seen.
The count associated with that log is decreased.
The log cannot be restored by the log owner or listing owner.
Movements of Trackables associated with logs are not affected by log deletion. If a log is posted, and a Trackable is dropped with that log, deletion of the log will not affect the location of the Trackable.
FINDERS
Delete a log if you have accidentally logged the wrong listing. You may also want to delete a log if you have used a “Write Note” log just to drop a Trackable in a cache.
You can delete your own log by using the View / Edit Logs / Images link under your log. That link will open the log on its own page. Above the log you’ll see a “Delete Log” button. You will be asked “Are you sure you want to delete this log entry?” and must click “Yes.” This is permanent. You cannot restore the log.
Use your powers carefully. The complete set of logs tells the story of the cache or that Trackable Item. Once it is deleted, you cannot restore it.
If your log has been deleted by a listing owner and you feel that the deletion is in error, please politely send a message to the listing owner. You may also try re-logging the cache while avoiding any spoilers and meeting logging requirements.
OWNERS
It is one of your maintenance duties as the cache owner to monitor quality control of posts to the cache page. To this end, you have the power to delete logs.
Use your powers carefully. The complete set of logs tells the story of the cache or that Trackable Item. Once it is deleted, you cannot restore it. You also have the power to permanently encrypt a log, which is a nice alternative to deletion.
Many logging errors are simple mistakes. Assume the best and please deal kindly with logs that may be in error: Are they novices using “Found it!” for repeat visits? Are they cachers entering finds on the wrong cache page?
If you must, delete a log by using the View This Log link. That link will open the log on its own page. Above the log you’ll see a “Delete Log” and a “Permanently Encrypt” button. If you choose to delete, you will be asked “Are you sure you want to delete this log entry?” and must click “Yes.” Again: once it is deleted, you cannot restore it.
Additional notes:
See our guidelines for Logging of All Physical Caches.
If the geocacher has failed to meet logging requirements, please explain your concerns. Politely email the log owner before or immediately after you delete their log. If their log or photos contain spoilers, invite them to edit the log. If you have deleted the log already, invite them to re-log without the spoiler.
Deleting a log removes that log from the logger’s history and from their profile. Not even the original author of that text can see it. The associated log count is decreased.
Deleting a “bug drop note” does not affect the Trackable mileage but may affect the log owner’s happiness. Be careful.
Obscene and threatening language is a violation of our Terms of Use. The log can be deleted immediately. It may be better not to respond the log owner directly. If you wish, let Groundspeak know by submitting a request for assistance or emailing contact@geocaching.com.
Deleting a Needs Maintenance log will not clear the Needs Maintenance attribute from the listing. Log an Owner Maintenance to clear that attribute.
Needs Archived logs are forwarded to reviewers. Deleting the log does not affect this.
If you are a cache owner and have deleted a log in error, you can contact your local reviewer to restore the log, or you can contact a site administrator by submitting a request for assistance, or emailing contact@geocaching.com.
If you are a geocacher and you believe that your log was deleted in error, you will have politely emailed the cache owner requesting that the log be reinstated. If you require further assistance, please email contact@geocaching.com.
MESSY SITUATION?
We know that sometimes this issue can be contentious. If the other party is being stubborn, ask yourself, “Is this dispute really worth my time?” Try being the bigger person and conceding the point. You may discover that you feel better for doing so. At the very least, it will put the matter quickly behind you.
I have deleted logs and had some of mine deleted. once deleted, that has been the end of it.
Now I will accept a found log if there is a valid reason for it, ie, log is mush, they don’t have a marking instrument but offer proof they were there, ie, photo.
This one time, I went to a TB hotel, who woulda thought there would be no pen or pencil in the cache, SO being an inventive type a guy, i took a stick, whittled it down on one end a bit, poked it into the soil a few times and signed my name with mud-ink.
Another time I found a cache that was frozen in place, even though it was 15 kms off the beaten track and chances were I would never return, I still logged it as a note that I was there but feared the container would be destroyed attempting to access it. The CO said to go ahead and log it as a find, I left it as a note and as I thought, I have not had a chance to return and that was about 4 years ago, i think it has been archived now.
Regardless of the log type, the experience of that location will remain with me. And that is more important then 1, 100, 1000 or 10000 claimed finds to me