Cache Maintenance: Do Your Part
It’s that time of year again where accessing remote caches can be a bit more challenging to say the least. Typically I will note in a found log throughout the fall what the general condition of the cache is, this lets the CO know if she or he may have to visit it before the snows come. I have also noticed this on some of my caches and really appreciate it. Two thumbs up for those who take the time to enter those comments in their logs.
Last weekend after a small hike with a group I continued on my own to pick up a few more of Zor’s story teller series and some of Hillbilly Bob’s caches in the area. I noted quite a few container and/or logbook bags were not sealed. Also quite a few bags were ripped. I only had a few bags with me so I quickly found I could not repair more then a few of the 2oish I found in a poor state.
In most cases I didn’t see any mention of of issues with the caches even though they have been found in the last month and the damaged ones looked to have been that way for a while, i.e. ripped bags or poorly sealing containers. Open bags though, that I find is just plain disrespectful for towards both the CO and fellow cachers.
I may not be overly religious but one thing that was instilled in me by my parents was basically “do onto others as you would have them do onto you”. Such a simple rule to live by. If you wouldn’t appreciate it done to you, why would you even contemplate doing the same to others.
Sadly these days there seems to be a lot of ” me…me….me” types about, but I digress.
I was out quite a bit last week and did 3 series of caches. Two of the series had good containers and were in relatively good shape, the other had half of the bags torn after only about 3 weeks of being published. this post got me thinking about why I think it was that way.
Now to start off, the last series I did was really new and the containers were all different sizes so that is why they were in better shape but I do think the place and size of the container plays a big part.
I did the bygone railway series by Zemartelo, which are all along an old railway line (great series go do it!) and because of the place and size the caches seemed to be in good shape. I think that is because the caches are mostly small, not micro which I think is a factor. You have to take the time to open it and look inside, this slows you down in order to look for the log among the swag if there is some and the stupid calling cards left there to rot. Being that they are on a walking trail also slows you down, you lose the “quick get back in the car before someone sees you” thinking.
Which brings me to the second series I did, Markirene’s side road series in Anagance. These were all placed near the road in micros and meant to be done as fast as possible for numbers. This type of series is there for only one reason, not to take you for a walk in the woods to see something nice, it is for a quick dash down a road and not getting more than 10 meters from your car. Half of the bags in this series are already ripped and torn because of it. I am sure that Mark is well aware that the bags are going to get torn and logs wet and he is willing to accept that because he can go fix them quickly and people usually tend to have spare logs with them and replace full or wet ones all the time, at least I do and most of people I cache with.
I think that the place and size of the cache determines how most people will handle the baggie or cache in general. If I find an ammo can in the woods I take my time and look inside it and I am always careful to place it back correctly. If it is one of dozens of micros in trees, I am still careful but not as careful, as long as it is in the same tree and not visible is usually close enough for most people. The cup hook thing is a good way to keep it in place, I like them. When you are with a group and looking for a regular sized container you usually all end up right beside it to see the container but if it a series of micros, the first person who yells “got it” makes most cachers stop or even start back out to the car.
I always have a dozen or so logs in bags with me when going out for a day of caching but if I am only going out to get a couple I usually only have a pen and GPS, but I try to help when possible.
Like the Rev we try to do maintenance when we see it is necessary. We always carry a spare plastic container, baggies and logs…nothing too fancy but enough to do our part so a cache does not get deactivated or archieved.
Unfortunately there are some geocachers who have lost interest and their caches are still out there. In the Miramichi we have been trying to clean up these forgotten caches so visitors to the area are not disappointed. We worry about how much we should be doing. Sometimes it is better to have a cache archieved but that seems to take a log time to happen.
We were planning a puzzle series run last fall and emailed the owner for some help on one of the puzzles. He ended up giving us some supplies to do maintenance while we were out and we were honoured to oblige. This might be a good idea for other cachers to think of doing if they are planning a georun in hard to access areas. I am thinking of places like the Dobson Trail, the Viking Series, etc.
We have a large supply of small log sheets in mini baggies. We use them to replace ruined log sheets and log books in caches that we find. So there are now CacheupNB log sheets in UK and Florida and other places outside the province. In our caching bag we usually have wire and duct tape and film canisters and plastic baggies.
Many other cachers also carry maintenance supplies with them. These same cachers often report on the condition of the caches that they find. This is well appreciated especially with regard to big series that are on trails or in the woods.
On the other hand, there are too many situations where we get logs stating that the log was soaked or frozen and they may even state that they were unable to sign. It would be nice if they carried a few items with them. Geez, I wonder if they dont have a grocery receipt in their pocket that they could put in the cache, to help till I get out to fix it. What is even worse is when they log a NEEDS MAINTENANCE in these cases. I am sure that they dont know the affect of such a log.
With regard to the condition of log sheets in series of micros, I dont think it can be blamed entirely on careless cachers who are in a hurry. In many cases the mini baggies in micros are very difficult to open, and often tear when you try to open them. Another problem is the type of container used. Many of them are not waterproof. For example, I use film canisters for our Micro Logic series and I usually chose the ones with the grey cover that fits over the top, thinking they would be better than the ones with the clear lid that fit into the top of the container. It turns out that I was wrong again. So I will now try using the other ones.
I wondered what happens when someone registers a “Needs Maintenance”. We thought it was to help the owner know when he or she should check their cache. We have just started hiding some for the Come Out & Play Contest and now realize that the owner gets a copy of every log. What is different about Maintenance logs?
The cache owner gets a copy of all logs on all their caches including the NEEDS MAINTENANCE logs.
A copy of that particular log also goes to the cache reviewers who will check on the cache after an amount of time, to see if the owner has taken action to correct the situation. The reviewer can disable the cache and even archive it if nothing is done.
It is therefore very annoying and frustrating when a cacher places a NEEDS Maintenance log to simply highlight a full log sheet, or a wet log. If the cacher is unwilling or unable to replace the log sheet, it is usually sufficient to simply mention the problem in the FOUND log, since the CO will get that log..
I have to strongly disagree with what is being said here about the “need maintenance” log.
Even before stating what I think, I will refer you to this link: http://support.groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=57
Section 3.8 -Caches that need maintenance- states: “If you find a geocache that is in need of some help (e.g. container is cracked, logbook is full or wet), please post a “Needs Maintenance” log on the cache page so the cache owner and the community is notified. This log adds an attribute to the page (looks like a colored cross) to alert other geocachers of the needed repairs. Logging Needs Maintenance does not increase find count. Needs Maintenance logs are not forwarded to reviewers.”
Now, do I sometimes carry plastic bags, extra log sheets and so forth: YES. I have even replaced whole containers. Should we all do this? Yes. Is it all cachers responsibility? NO, the onus of maintenance is solely on the owner. But again, not per my beliefs or opinion but that of Groundspeak, all maintenance, including changing of a wet or full log is the owner’s ultimate responsibility. If one cannot handle maintenance on his new 150 micro caches series along a logging road, perhaps he/she should stick with owning just that one cache 50m from his house.
Again per Groundspeak: Owners must…
•Replace the container if the current one is not holding up in its environment.
•Make sure that that your container is watertight and that the contents are free from debris.
•If any of the cache contents are wet, dry them off or replace them.
•Check that there is enough space left in your logbook for many more entries.
•If winter is approaching, make sure you include a pencil in your cache since the ink in pens can freeze.
•If your cache will not be accessible due to seasonal weather conditions, note this on the cache page.
•Verify the Trackables that are listed in your cache. Those that are listed in the online inventory but are no longer physically in the cache can be marked as “missing” by using the appropriate link on the Trackable’s page.
We need to stop ducking our head in the sand thinking that all owners read all their incoming logs. If you get 200 emails one day about your power trail, with cut and paste logs, and that the finder in #156 add a little extra note to the cut and paste, “by the way this log is ruined”, is it going to be picked up by the owner? Now say that the owner gets 200 “found emails” that he may most likely not all read, but in the same incoming emails there is one stating “Cacher XXX reports cache #156 needs maintenance”, in my book that has a lot more chances to be picked up! And yes, not everyone carries 20 pounds of repairing kit(I sometimes do) and it happens that one goes out with just a GPS, not even a pen (ask Rev). All in all when there is a wet/frozen/entirely full/unusable log and I can change it I do, and when I can’t I write a “need maintenance log”.
This is my 2 cents, expressing my disagreement with what was said before with extreme prejudice. (I am a dork, I just like this extreme prejudice thing; This badass Kevin O’Leary on Dragon’s Dens says that all the time and I am not even sure 100% what it means LOL).
No offence to anyone, not targeting anyone in particular, just Nemo’s usual rant 🙂 Happy caching everyone.
What really sucks is when someone logs a needs maintenance and they applied it to the wrong cache.
Nemo is right, the finder bares no responsibility to maintain other peoples caches. To do so is entirely voluntary, however, being careful while handling the cache and contents is another issue. leaving baggies unsealed is careless and disrespectful of both the CO and fellow cachers.
Now there are ziplock baggies and then there are ziplock baggies. They vary greatly in quality and durability. this affects both the ability to resist tearing and ease of closure.
Bottom line, most baggies from the dollar store are towards the low end of scale of quality and durability.
small baggies for micros, well, seems very hard to find a small yet tough baggie.
Regarding film and pill containers, I don’t think you can get a truly 100% airtight seal with these. I think they act like a moisture trap that sucks damp air in where it condenses as the environment cools off more. I think these containers would benefit from a weep hole to let the water that condensed to drain out.
Regarding open baggies on a series, I call it a lazy cacher when I do a series and consistently see one cachers name at the end of logsheet. I’m not the first person to say this nor will I be the last.
As far as cache maintenance on others caches, I sometimes carry supplies, depends on whether I planned on caching that day or not.
But…. Some caches I won’t fix because the cache owner has exhibited a behavior of place and forget about them assuming finders will maintain them. Others I won’t fix are those that from the get-go were geotrash.
I cant agree with a lot of this.
I know my responsibility as a cache owner and I know that ultimately it is my responsibility to do maintenance. However, I feel we are all in this together. If someone takes the time and expense to hide a bunch of caches to give me an adventure , I will tell him about my adventure, how much I appreciate it, and I will do what I can to keep the caches in good shape. A few baggies and log sheets, and maybe a few film canisters, a bit of tape and wire does not weigh 20 pounds (not that I always carry all that stuff). If you do minor repairs on a cache, you are not only helping the cache owner, you are making things good for the next cacher to go for the cache.
All this is especially important for a series of caches. If there is a problem with a cache in the middle of a series in the woods, it can be a lot of trouble for the cache owner to go out and fix the problem. Also it could be very disapointing for the next cacher who tries the series to not be able to complete it all.
In these discussions I often mention our SM series of 29 caches which is in the woods between Shediac and malakoff. The series takes a few hours to complete, has caches far from town, and gives you an adventure you wont soon forget. How would I feel if someone not only tells me that ethe log was wet or full, but also puts a needs maintenance log? That log goes to the cache reviewer and there is a possibility that the reviewer will disable or even archive that cache because of that log.
EBE51 just did that series. He not only replaced all the wet and frozen logs, he also indicated which caches were in great shape. He also indicated which ones were missing.One of the caches was broken and he advised us that we would have to fix it and told us what he did, to protect the log sheet. He did not do a needs maintenance log, but that is likely a situation where he could have legitimately done one. His logs were really helpful to me and were well appreciated. This week I will be going out there replacing caches, putting some new ones and fixing the broken one
This was a great comment thread, and as a new cacher I myself after reading this will be more vigilant in helping maintain any caches that I find.
Funny thing is I found one today and tried my best to repair it without proper tools, so my my cache knap sack is getting a refit with new supplies.
Need Maintenance …
I know it’s been mentioned in the last podcast (https://www.cacheupnb.com/cachers-corner-podcast-episode-13/), but I felt I needed to post this here as well, not so much for the cachers with more experience ( who like me already have their own ideas about things 🙂 ), but targeting the newer audience and new cachers.
Because of this debate on the “need maintenance” log, I just couldn’t leave it be and I really had to know if the reviewers were getting those logs since they get the “need archive” log. So in true Nemo fashion, I asked a reviewer.
Here is the answer: “We do not get the Needs Maintenance logs, those are for the cache owner to alert them that maintenance is needed. We do get the Needs Archived logs. If the cache requires maintenance, this is what the Needs Maintenance log is meant for.” I guess I got my answer.
My last word on it would be: Do not hesitate a minute to put a need maintenance log. They are there to inform the owner, and yes that includes the mention of an unusable log. Once maintenance is done, the owner can remove the “red cross” attribute by posting an “owner maintenance” log.
My advice for new cachers who decide to put caches out: Only put out what you can properly maintain in a timely fashion. If you decide to put out a power-trail of 100 geocaches in a 20km hike, GREAT FOR US, but bear in mind that one day there will be maintenance to be done and logs to be replaced, and that one day instead of going out for your 1000th find and 365 day streak you may have to forget the hunt and instead have to go for a 20km maintenance hike: As that is also what Geocaching is (or should be) about.
Nemo I will first address your last paragraph.
I agree with what you say. If I place the cache it is my responsibility to do maintenance and I will do the maintenance. If the cache is part of a series out in the woods, I will get to it although not as quickly as for my caches in town.
On the other hand, if a cacher prepares to spend the day out finding the 41 caches out in the woods, perhaps, part of the preparation would be to bring a few baggies and log sheets. I know there is no requirement for the cacher do do this, but any little maintenance would be appreciated.
Caching for us is getting out of the house with our gps. We enjoy the adventure, which includes long hikes to find caches, hide caches and even maintain caches (ours and those of others). Caching would not exist if people were not willing to hide caches.
In a similar vein, I should mention our micro logic caches. We have more than 100 of them out there. Most of them do not get that many visits after they have been out a while. So when I hear that one of them is maybe missing or has a frozen or damp log sheet, the temptation would be to archive it. However, I am constantly getting email from people out of town saying that they are busy solving them and planning a trip to come and get them. So when one is in trouble, I do my best to fix it or I may ask Belladan to do it for us. In many cases, the person finding the cache, often fixes it for us and that is welll appreciated.
Here is an example of an email we received about the micro logics and I think it explains the reason why I work at keeping them active.
Hi Ma & Pa,
Buddysally here. Just wanted to send you a friendly hi from Ontario.
My sister, cleo23, and I plan to come to NB in the next year or so. The ONLY REASON we have picked NB, is because of your logic puzzles. We have done all the ones in Quebec, and love them so much that we wanted to do more. You can imagine how thrilled we were to see how many you have in NB; hence our trip. Cleo23 has been working on them like a maniac, and has 46 done to date. She is an awesome puzzler. It will take me 20 hours to get through one, and she does it in 5 or 10 minutes; she is absolutely amazing. She got the genes for a terrific math logic puzzle brain and I got the genes for arthritis; how fair is that!!!! Our husbands have agreed to come along on our trip too; they want to golf while we cache. Can’t wait for the trip; to spend a week caching with my sister will be a dream come true and to do your micro logics just makes it that much more fun and rewarding.
We hope that the New Year brings you health, happines and terrific caching experiences. Cheers and happy caching. *************************************************
As far as reviewers not getting the Needs Maintenance logs, How would you explain this message we got on one of our caches. The cache had a NEEDS MAINTENANCE log and I had fixed it but forgotten to log my maintenance:
Happy New Year Ma & Pa
I am a volunteer for http://www.geocaching.com.
With the new year here, I notice that your cache has been in need of maintenance since ………, due to the length of time its been in need of maintenance you have 1 month to give your cache some TLC based on the following section of the guidelines.
“Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location. You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to maintain proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.). You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to search for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable amount of time – normally a few weeks – in which to check on your cache. If a cache is not being maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an unreasonable length of time, we may archive the listing.”
Once you have made repairs, post an “Owner Maintenance” log on the cache page. This log removes the Needs Maintenance Icon. Don’t let your cache be filtered out in Pocket Queries by forgetting to remove the Needs Maintenance Icon.
If there is no activity or reviewer note to indicate when this cache will receive maintenance by February 24th, 2012 I will have no choice but to disable your cache as the next step..
You can contact me through my profile on http://www.geocaching.com
Thank you for your listing,
Pa, I don’t think you and I ever disagreed on the owner’s onus on maintenance, and I am quite certain you never thought I questioned you doing maintenance on your own cache or that of others. I am also with you 100% that when out on a hike, a cacher with good etiquette and who is conscientious about others will carry extra log sheets/baggies.
Essentially where we differ in opinion is on the need maintenance log. Having said that, now that I know more about your situation, I have to agree that I am as puzzled as you are. I am speechless and cannot explain this situation, namely since there was no need archive log ??? Only speculations as I do not know more about your story, but do you think somebody wrote directly to the reviewers to complain about your cache needing maintenance for a while ?? I dunno, but I can certainly understand more now where you were coming from. Certainly a situation raising questions.
Yep I think we agree on most of this stuff and I think the discusssion was likely very informative to many newbies. The fact that we discussed it at length certainly indicates how much we care about geocaching and its survival.
With regard to the cache I mentioned, Here is the log in question
Needs Maintenance
07/11/2011
Needs Maintenance new log sheet required
After that, there were 14 FOUND logs with no comments about the log sheet.
I am not questioning the action by the reviewer, I am wondering if they get advised of the NEEDS maintenance log. Maybe they dont get advised but our local reviewers take it upon them selves to ensure everything is OK with the caches. Rereading the reviewers comments lead me to believe that the intent was to help me and also to help the other cachers.
I also wish to make the following very clear.
I fully support the work that Cache Agent and Cache Tech do for us. They work hard at their job and are very devoted to the hobby. They go out of their way to cooperate when there are cache challenges and events that require a large number of approvals. They also are willing to listen and compromise when there are borderline situations. Not all reviewers are as easy to get along with. We are lucky to have them.
PAul
I thought this discussion was now over BUT…
Ma just informed me that Nemo and I like to talk too much and that we will likely continue…
LOL
LOL, I had to give a thumb up on that one!
Have to agree with Pa on this one.
See my cache GCNZD0 Pioneer Greveyard on Calidonia Mt.
I forgot to log a Maintenance done after Hillbilly Bob fixed the cache
for me.
Found it Found it
01/24/2012
my original needs maintenance log was deleted… but technically still found it LOL.
View Log
Hillbilly Bob
[Premium Member] Premium Member
[Caches Found] 7768
Write note Write note
01/24/2012
Checked your cache while on the mountain today,its in great shape and in the same hiding place. There is very little snow up here, only a few inches and it is melting fast. C U C
View Log
jim52
[Premium Member] Premium Member
[Caches Found] 15305
Owner Maintenance Owner Maintenance
01/07/2012
See Hillbilly Bob’s note 08/26/2011
He replaced the cache for me.
The log of 10/15/2011 was just a DNF log.
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cache agent
[Reviewer] Reviewer
[Caches Found] 15
Post Reviewer Note Post Reviewer Note
01/07/2012
Happy New Year jim52
I am a volunteer for http://www.geocaching.com.
With the new year here, I notice that your cache has been in need of maintenance since 10/16/2011, due to the length of time its been in need of maintenance you have 1 month to give your cache some TLC based on the following section of the guidelines.
(visit link)
“Owner is responsible for visits to the physical location. You are responsible for occasional visits to your cache to maintain proper working order, especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.). You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to search for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable amount of time – normally a few weeks – in which to check on your cache. If a cache is not being maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an unreasonable length of time, we may archive the listing.”
Once you have made repairs, post an “Owner Maintenance” log on the cache page. This log removes the Needs Maintenance Icon. Don’t let your cache be filtered out in Pocket Queries by forgetting to remove the Needs Maintenance Icon.
If there is no activity or reviewer note to indicate when this cache will receive maintenance by February 7th, 2012 I will have no choice but to disable your cache as the next step..
You can contact me through my profile on http://www.geocaching.com
Thank you for your listing,
Cache Agent
Volunteer Cache Reviewer
View Log
Hillbilly Bob
[Premium Member] Premium Member
[Caches Found] 7768
Write note Write note
08/26/2011
Went by your cache today and found the outside container in pieces and the inside container broken with no cover and the log is mush. left a new container with new log-sheet and pencil in hiding place, Cache is ready to go. C U caching.–Took old container and pieces with me.
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Cache Agent must go out looking for them because Cache Tech says in his email that they do not get the needs maintenance logs.