FNP Shake up!
The Fundy National Park event has proven to be a huge success and continues to draw more people each year and with 2013 being the year of big events in NB I think it is time for a bit of a shake up for FNP.
I was discussing this with Robyn Simard, our awesome FNP staff representative, and we feel it is time for a change. Not that there was anything wrong with the past 5 years but it would be a great opportunity to change things up a bit and get your opinions on how to do it. We have some ideas and I will lay them out for you to comment on and share some of your ideas. Here is what we are thinking about doing since all the coins will be gone by then.
We are going to remove ALL the older caches, including last years and hide 12-15 new ones. We are thinking of making them in 3 levels. 4-5 of hard, long hikes (5-10+km), 4-5 medium hikes (2-5km) and 4-5 easy hides. In order to get a coin you will need to do 1 hard, 2 med and 2 easy. Maybe have more than one coin or have one if you complete all the hard ones or all in the park. Of course this will depend on FNP and funding. Would you be willing to pay for a limited edition coin at the gift shop for finding all of them?
Would you be willing to pay a small event fee and have a BBQ at the end? Should the event end later in the day?
Maybe have two events, one at the end of a long hike and overnight Saturday at Goose river perhaps?
I think the best way to get more people interested and involved is to ask you, the attendees what you would like to see, I don’t believe in secret events and want to make it what you all want it to be. Open for suggestions but try to keep them reasonable and within budget, which isn’t much. This is still a long ways off but it will give us time to work it all out and get a head start on planning, since last year was very rushed.
The Fundy event is always our favourite caching event of the year and we usually spend the whole weekend at the park. We’ve often commented that it would be wonderful to have a BBQ the evening of the event so people could sit around and enjoy the atmosphere of the event and chat and eat – all things we cachers seem to enjoy! We pass so many folks on the trails it would be nice to actually get to meet them and talk to them! It would also be nice if there was some type of event or get together the next day, too. Very often, those of us who stay do get together for campfires or coffee and chats so why not make it an official one? Or an organized but unofficial one. 🙂
We’d have no problem paying an event fee for any of that.
As far as the hikes go we just like to hike the park and find the caches. We’ll find ’em wherever you hide them. Not sure about asking to pay for the coin, though, if you’re paying a park fee and an event fee. Having said that, we’d probably pay it!
Gwen I meant paying for the “find all the caches” coin above and beyond a free one for finding 5. They may go for it if it doesn’t cost them or they make a buck or two.
Aaahh, ok. That sounds better! 🙂
As a user who got there they day they ran out of the coins for this year, I wouldn’t of minded having the option at the gift shop of throwing a few dollars down to get a coin. I understand it is about the journey and not the coin at the end, but not going to lie, my heart did sink a bit when the girl at the counter said, “sorry last coins went a few hours ago.” Maybe the first few hundred free(opening weekend rush) and anything past xxxxx amount given out it’s xxx amount at the gift shop. Tiered system?
This year had the most coins and they went the fastest, will work on getting more next year if possible.
Awesome.
Great ideas, we are planning on spending the weekend there next year. Is the archiving of the old caches more based on the fact you have already covered the significant spots there and will need them again for the events? Maybe mixing it up a bit with themed events based on the cache types such as a mystery caches, or Earthcaches. That may offer varieties from year to year and open up more final stages. Also with the turnout of the first time cachers I think some focus on caching 101 is important as well to include in the weekend before the main event happens. Which i’m sure those that go for the weekend would offer assistance to. Also those existing caches would some of them be possibly kept just remove the year event info from it? I know you like to keep the park relatively clean of hides. Also the lake with kayaks are there I think that would be an appealing area for hides by boat
FNP likely made a ridiculous amount of money off of geocachers for this years event through park entrance fees and the like, what with the high number that came for the event itself, stayed overnight, came multiple times or throughout the summer, etc. Charging cachers again for an event with a BBQ, or for a coin purchase, is, in my personal opinion, nickle-and-diming them a bit. And if you have to pay for a limited edition coin, even if it is an extra one for finding all of the caches, what is FNP really ponying up at that point? FNP has a track record of going cheaper and cheaper in terms of payout (metal trackable to wooden trackable to non- trackable metal to wooden nickle) while the number of cachers coming for the event and hiking to get the coin is getting higher and higher each year.
Yes, everyone loves hiking in FNP and a fair number come for the event and hike regardless. But lets be honest, the reward of a coin at the end is a really big enticement and likely draws a lot of cachers to the park.
I would love to see some numbers to either prove or disprove my point:
1. The breakdown of cost for FNP each year to do the event
2. The amount FNP brings in each year because of the geocaches and the coin prize.
3. The number of cachers who still come and do the caches after the coins are all gone.
Mark,
You should totally host your own event with kickass expensive coins and prizes and stuff.
Sure! But you’re not on the guest list. Sorry.
I dont think it is a good idea to try and complicate things and having people trying to figure out what cache qualify for the free coin and how do you get the other coin, and is there time to get caches in time for the BBQ thaat I may already have paid for, etc.
And as for overnight at Goose River, it would of course only apply to those who have backpacking equipment. And what about the standard fee for the campsites at Goose River. And there is a very limited number of campsites at Goose River.
With regard to Forest Fauna’s comments, I dont really agree. The Park is obviously using the event to help promote the park but I really do not see it as a big money making endeavour for them and I do not see money as their motivation. Yes, cachers are paying an entrance fee but they are getting to hike in the park and have access to all the park has to offer. And the event was changed this year to make it possible for everyone to get the caches in one day so that they do not have to pay camping fees, etc.
With regard to the fees, MA and I buy an annual National Park pass every year which we use to hike in the parks, and cross country ski in Kouchi. The pass gives us access to the park for this event.
And I do not see the coins as the main incentive for attending. People attend because it is an important and fun caching event with all the pluses of a caching event. The coins are a bonus
My apologies, I over-embellished my first statement. My overall point is simply that it seems like FNP is paying less out while gaining more in the long run, as the turn out is getting higher and higher each year, with more people not just attending the event that day but making an entire weekend out of it when maybe normally they wouldn’t. But again, I would love to see the breakdown of numbers, and would certainly be willing be change my tune with the benefit of clarity.
To be fair, my daughters and I are disappointed that we aren’t going to earn the coin this year. So we are not sure we will be going down to do the hikes at FNP, or we certainly wouldn’t push to do them all. The incentive just isn’t there anymore.
I will start right of the bat by saying that you may want to read this with a grain of salt as I am most likely biased. I LOVE National Parks and especially Fundy (probably as it’s the only one I can afford to go to easily LOL). Didi and I are VERY supportive of National Parks. This year, I gave my name for volunteering in their biology research project, but haven’t been called yet (perhaps with all the cuts lately there is now not much going on unfortunately!).
So loving Fundy and Geocaching , it’s not a surprise that the Fundy Geocaching Event became our elected wedding anniversary getaway spot. We are usually there from the Friday to the Monday!
We LOVE the idea of all sorts of hikes: Tough, medium and easy. All kinds for all kinds of people. If you are in top shape like me, you do them all; you are more like Rev, you do only one or two short ones. I think it would be just perfect!
The idea of a BBQ after is also very interesting for the reasons mentioned by Milosheart. The only thing, some people actually want to leave early and right after on the Sunday, so I don’t know how attended it would be, but perhaps I am wrong. I don’t know. Maybe the event should be on the Saturday instead, which may end up getting people to stay for the night? Or a two day event: Starts around noon or in the morning on Saturday with a 2$ breakfast (I volunteer to cook the bacon), then people go out and can come back for the 5-6pm BBQ? Then more caching on the Sunday morning and a wrap up with prizes and all on the Sunday afternoon as it is presently? Again just throwing out random ideas here. Ultimately if you want to keep the same way of doing things it’s absolutely fine with us.
Goose River has only 4 small sites, so not sure it’s a good idea there, but here is my (our) take on the group site where the event is. Why is there so much confusion about what group gets what site??? I would think that with the geocaching event growing, we should have site 1-2 or 3-4 or whatever JUST for all things geocaching AND, so that geocachers can pitch their tent/hammock all together in the same vicinity, preferably near the one that has a fire pit. With a 2 day event, that would be a blast, and I bet that there would be more people staying the Saturday night, especially if everybody can be in the same camping area.
As far as geocoins are concerned, first the ought to be trackable. In our view, an untrackable geocoing is pretty much pointless (although some people may like those anyway): a piece of metal or wood that will just sit on the counter and get lost. I think a year or two ago I won one and gave it to a kid. The idea of having one special if you do all the hard hikes is neat, but also more expensive for the park, which brings me to the $ issue.
I cannot disagree more with some on the $ issue. All National Parks are struggling financially, even more so with the recent stupid cuts by our beloved Harper! (You don’t want to bring me there!). Although I haven’t seen any figures, I am convinced that although the geocaching event is growing that it’s NOT bringing substantial $, certainly not to be qualified as a “ridiculous amount of money”. I would not mind at all to have to pay full price for the geocoin, even an additional fee of a few dollars to make sure the park has enough to cover everything. I would not mind a minute to pay for my hotdog(ssss) at the BBQ or at the proposed breakfast (who proposed a breakfast anyway? 🙂 ). It’s like anything in life. I would love to drive a big truck, but I can only afford a little Ford Ranger not even 4×4, in which Teta was so squeezed one day with his back pack that he could hardly walk up the Friars’ nose after. It’s all about choices. I haven’t read a post here about people being mad at the price of GPS or the price of a cell phone, yet we would be ready to boycott an event because of a 10$ geocoin? In the end it would perhaps be a good thing that the geocoin is 10$ or more. Instead of getting 2 for the 2 of us, perhaps I would only get one, leaving more for others in the rest of the season. I do not want to sound like a guy who is full of $$ as it’s totally the opposite. You’d be surprised at how Didi and I struggled at one point just recently. But this is how it is. Sometimes you have to spend a buck or two if you want to have good time. And the price that may be associated with the geocoin and a possible BBQ is NOT all that significant compared to the price that one has to put out to be able to be part of geocaching. Yes it adds up, but that is how things go, not everything can be free. We should all be happy that we still have places in the wilderness like the National Park (while they last with Harper in charge!!!) and be very supportive of them, and unless somebody can prove me wrong, I don’t think that there is any way in hell that they make money on geocacher’s back.
Didi and I love Fundy park and love the geocaching Fundy event. Geocoin or not, changes or not, even if we have to hitchhike, we will be there!
I have to admit that the first year that Fundy came up with a wooden non trackable geocoin I was quick at saying out loud that they were cheaping out with the event growing, and “giving us” less. My first impression was inevitably that they were making money on our back. That was a spur of the moment thinking. But when I look back, I changed my mind. Today I think I was wrong back then. Can you believe this? Nemo admitting he was wrong. I think I need Didi to bring me to the hospital! Well, I was not completely wrong, I was rightfully upset as anyone has the right to be when their candy is taken away or when the bags of chips are now way smaller (right Cableguy?), but I was wrong thinking that it was with an intentional way for them to make a buck. So I guess I was wrong, a little.
This year was the first year I was able to attend the event and I had a blast. I will definitely attend whatever version we see next year.
However, I do think that there is a limit to what we should try and accomplish in terms of length of event. For many people, staying over night may not be feasible due to family, kids sporting events, or whatever.
I like the idea of an “optional” passport – maybe publish two passports in the spirit of rev’s idea where you can select a harder, longer route and thus plan on staying overnight if need be. The second would have a “day trip spirit” which would be more for those who cannot stay overnight. This year’s caches were a perfect mix for a “day-trip”.
I think no matter what though, holding it on Saturday with a BBQ at the end of the day would be fantastic. That would give the “day trippers” and the “over-nighters” both a chance to meet up to socialize and have some fun after a long day of hiking. I know that weekend is pretty busy for the Park, but I like Nemo’s idea of trying to group everyone together to continue the spirit of the day into the evening.
And the whole thing about a coin, either free or paid for, is to me nothing more then a bonus. I go to see the people, grab the caches and enjoy the Park. Sure the coin is a nice end to the day, but it will probably just sit on my bureau with the rest of them, whereas the memories are always with me.
Sorry I should clarify that I would probably still buy a coin (trackable preferred but not a deal breaker) but that is not the main reason I go to the events.
Keep it coming folks, in the end it will be what FNP wants and can afford but if we offer up to “make it more cost beneficial” we may all win.
Last year was our first time at the event, so I only have that event to base my experiences on. I went with my 14 year old son, a great time was had. And what a crowd we experienced! Cachers of all ages. Seniors, families young and younger. Babies, toddlers, a lot of pre-teens and teens as well.
It sure looked and felt like a family event. And that is why I feel that the event should focus more on families than the regular, active geocacher. Our community will grow and thrive if we get the younger folk interested. now having said that, I think there could be a focus more on the shorter and easier hikes than a 10km. That would be difficult for teens and nearly impossible with toddlers.
So, who does CUNB and Fundy want to attract to the event? I think that it’s that, that should help decide what will the event contain as far as hikes are concerned.
The BBQ? All for it. It was about the only thing missing last year. And I’ll be glad to man the spatula.
We have had people say last year was the best mix and some people came in threw down their passport and say it was too easy and left in a huff (they really did). I really would like to make it appeal to everyone so that is why I want to make it a challenge to all, the families and the hikers. I would also like to make it more appealing for those who want to camp while still offering as much as possible to the day trippers. It may not be possible and I know I won’t please everyone, that has been proven many times but I can still try 😉
And Nemo, you know it’s not just chips.
Nemo knows that I have an issue with shrinkeage….of food packaging.
Perhaps a slight variation on the idea you proposed.
Assign point values to the caches that are hidden in the park, based on difficulty. Instead of saying “find 2 short, 2 medium and 1 long hike,” say that to earn the coin you need to get, say, 15 points. Make short hikes worth 1 point, medium hikes worth 2-3 points and long hikes 4-5 points. Then cachers can decide how they want to reach the goal to complete the challenge. This might be a little bit more family-friendly since not everyone is able to do the longer hikes.
As part of this, it would be great to have some different cache types in the park. I enjoyed the puzzle cache this year. You could have a puzzle cache that requires you to visit the interpretive panels on a trail like Shiphaven to get the info for the final coordinates. Or you could do a multi-cache that takes you around the Caribou Plain loop. Or a letterbox hybrid cache at the visitor’s centre. A Wherigo cache would also be really neat on a trail like Dickson Falls where there are lots of interpretive areas that could go into the cache info. It would be neat to be able to get 5+ different icons during the day finding caches.
On a related note, with all the staff and budget cutbacks in the park, it would be great if there was a CITO associated with the overall event. CUNB could work with the park to identify an area that could use some cleanup. It could even be worth a point or two towards the challenge.
Ultimately, I see being able to get all of the following cache types in one weekend:
-traditional
-multi
-letterbox hybrid
-puzzle
-Wherigo
-Earthcache
-Event cache
-CITO event cache
I think I’d do the following:
Saturday 17:00 Caches published on gc.com
Saturday 18:30 CITO Event (worth 1 point towards challenge)
Saturday 21:00 Campfire Event
Sunday 10:00 Event Opening (GPS instruction, passports available, etc.)
Sunday 16:00 Event Closing (Prizes, coins available)
Sunday 17:00 BBQ ($1 hot dogs, $1 drinks, $2 hamburgers, etc.)
One final point, as I put on my other hat: Orienteering New Brunswick does 2 races in Fundy Park on that same long weekend, and has been doing so for around the same length of time as this geocaching event – the ONB races used to start from the golf course area, hence why the two groups didn’t see each other every year. A number of geocachers participated in the night orienteering event this spring and seemed to enjoy themselves, seeing it as a complementary activity. At the same time, there was some friction over the booking of shelters and two activities taking place in the same spot. To help this, I think CUNB and ONB should work together on scheduling for the weekend, rather than competing with one another. Geocaching is, in simple terms, merely orienteering with a fancy electronic compass.
Revisiting my previous post, then, I’d suggest:
Saturday 17:00 Caches published on gc.com
Saturday 18:30 CITO Event (worth 1 point towards challenge)
Saturday 21:00 Campfire Event (site #2)
Night Orienteering Event (site #1 or 3)
Sunday 10:00 Event Opening (site #1/2, GPS instruction, passports available, etc.)
ONB Race (site #3/4 or other park location)
Sunday 16:00 Event Closing (Prizes, coins available)
Sunday 17:00 BBQ ($1 hot dogs, $1 drinks, $2 hamburgers, etc.)
Thanks Heath, the point systems makes sense. I was talking to Robyn and we are thinking of moving the event to Saturday this year and have a BBQ event after the main one. This would allow more people to spend the night or to take two days to get the coin or more caches. I would have the caches come out on Friday in this case.
We have already discussed who gets what shelter next year and there will not be a mixup. If your scout troop isn’t there next year we may reserve group sites 3/4 for cachers to camp together, other wise it is yours.
We love caching in NB and attend as many of the big events as we can manage. We even choose the Fundy event over an event much closer to home. We have attended the Fundy event for three years in a row and coming from 6 hours away, we appreciate having it on the Sunday so we can come and not take any extra days off work. However, the last two years we came up Friday afternoon anyway, so I guess that is moot.
We go to the events in Keji each year and have done the coin in CB Highlands national park too. The Fundy event is the most popular and well attended of all the NP events we have participated in.
One comment that I read above that I echo completely is this:
” I would think that with the geocaching event growing, we should have site 1-2 or 3-4 or whatever JUST for all things geocaching AND, so that geocachers can pitch their tent/hammock all together in the same vicinity, preferably near the one that has a fire pit. With a 2 day event, that would be a blast, and I bet that there would be more people staying the Saturday night, especially if everybody can be in the same camping area.”
We did that at Keji last fall and it increased the opportunities to mingle, share stories, and enjoy each others’ company.
Personally I enjoy the challenges of the harder/longer caches. That’s not to say I don’t see the value in the easier caches too. The variety and the points system seems to address the wishes of every type of cacher. You can do a large number of quick caches or 3 long caches or a combination.
I probably would not pay for a coin but I would still complete the passport and more than likely do all of the caches that are placed.
I also like the idea of having the opportunity to get each icon type in the same day. A similar event day was recently held near Halifax and was quite popular. This would also be good for people who want to get a Wherigo but do not have a compatible GPS – people could work in teams.
I guess I didn’t offer any new ideas, just gave my two cents to add to what others have already contributed.
Like Pa, we purchase a Discovery pass annually and use it as much as we can. Parks are a great resource and I’d hate to lose them. Budgets are constantly being cut and the parks need to make tough business decisions. I’d have to say that this event has a great ROI and is something they should continue to invest in.
Thanks for asking! I look forward to next May.