Does geotrash have the potential to become a Tim Horton’s cups plague?
You know, I’ve been bitching on here a bit, or perhaps a bit more than a bit; Not lately, but more in CacheupNB early days, when I had more time on my hands. Some may think that I was only bitching, but I see my posts more as bluntly expressing my opinion rather than just be bitching for bitching. That B word aside, I also believe I made very positive posts.
But what I realize today is that I do not hold strong oppositions or crazy insanely strong opinions on the vast majority of the subjects that used to trigger Nemo’s Wrath. For example, I cannot care less today about someone that claims a find that he/she is not entitled to. I would not even as a cache owner delete such a log. I can find it lame, stupid or even funny, but that is it. I have no problems with people claiming finds on their own caches (after adoptions), I have no problems with people “attending” their own events(I would do it), I have no problems with people logging a find because they ‘’passed by’’ (although this one will forever stay in my head as the most funny AND lame claim ever!). It’s each and everyone’s hobby or game…AND ITS FUN! Do not harm anyone or the Nature surrounding you and I will be fine…
… Except … (and Tetagoucher will love this)
… Two things: Maintenance of owned caches and respect for that of others AND GEOTRASH!
I already wrote enough, perhaps too much, about the decency that a cacher should have of maintaining his/her own caches, but I don’t think I ever attacked a sad and true reality: Geotrash.
How many geocaches in the whole world? More than 1.5 million? That is a lot of Tupperware in the woods, and lot of potential for geotrash. Now don’t get me wrong, I like to believe that the vast majority of the 5million+ geocachers are very sensitive to the environment and against trash in the wilderness. But let’s face it, not all are as good as us here (). Besides, think about how many people put caches out there and after a while just leave the game, for whatever reason (I mean no one lives forever, right?).
Lately I read about this ‘’plague’’ of Tim Horton’s cups being more dense on the side of the roads than vegetation, and it made me wonder: Is there that risk associated with geocaching that seems to be exponentially growing? I personally think that there can be. I also think that Groundspeak should take this seriously. Have you ever heard about this anti-geocaching movement somewhere out west or in the states or I can’t remember where, where a group were purposely going in the woods to remove geocaches? One of their reason was that it would someday be left there as trash. How about, perhaps in a pro-active way, before it becomes a problem, if Goundspeak would take action on this before it becomes a problem; before someone takes this to a higher level (like I may be doing here) and sets up a precedent against the game that we all love? Now, how do you incite a geocacher to go out there, find an archived cache, just to remove out the geotrash? EASY….. YOU CREATE AN ICON FOR IT! Wooohooo for the number game. But you know what? I would be darn proud of my first ‘’geotrash removal’’ smiley, my 10th, 50th, and all the milestones you can possibly think of! Way more in my book than the challanges, that for most have nothing to do with geocaching.
Is there anything I said here that makes sense? Are you for it or not? What could go wrong with such a crazy idea?
I agree 100% except on the icon part. People will remove good caches just to get their numbers up. I archived 4 caches today, after they were in my truck.
Agreed.
And I can see myself chasing Nemo down a dirt road, him with my cache in hand, me with cammo tape and a new log 😉
But truly, I find the amount of Tim’s cups in ditches disgusting, and people’s practice of throwing them out their car window revolting.
As cachers do we need a reward for removing geotrash. I guess new cachers would not know what to do with it. But for those who have been at this game a while, we know what is a cache and what is junk. We also know who doesn’t do maintenance on their caches and who no longer caches anymore.
I have no problem removing a cache if it is garbage and will probably not be taken care of.I have done it a few times and removed another one just last week.( http://coord.info/GCTWJM )
But why should we have to pick up someone else’s mess? Because they are not going to do it. Period. And because only the respectable and active cachers are the only ones left to do the clean up. We are the only ones who know where this stuff is.
Of course there are a milloin arguments for the pros and cons of picking up after someone else.
My reward:
I get a smiley, if I had not already found the cache.
I get a piece of geotrash out of the woods.
I get to see the “Cache Archived” log.
I certainly agree with these points too, E.B.E 51. I think the real issue are those caches that are already archived, but not removed. Currently, you can’t search for them. That’s where a lot of (unrecognized) geotrash comes from, after all.
Easy enough to remove a cache that hasn’t been maintained by a cacher no longer active / who won’t do maintenance. Harder to remove a cache that’s not in the searchable system anymore.
Nice to see someone finally gets it!
Strangely enough, and it may be the T3s talking, but I agree with Nemo on this one :p. IF, that is, I understand him correctly.
That being, once caches are archived, they would THEN be searchable on Groundspeak to hunt down to remove the geotrash. If you go to an archived cache site and then find (and remove) the trash, you’d get to claim a “find” or whatever, getting a special icon (perhaps half CITO, half smiley?).
You can only do this to caches that have been archived BY REVIEWERS, since those would be caches not physically removed. Hunting for a cache that the CO removed might be extremely damaging to the environment, after all.
It could always be run similar to the TB rescue site – sign up for a retrieval mission, and once you click COMPLETE, the listing is removed from the retrieval system?
It could work. There are, of course, issues – but I don’t think Nemo meant that if he felt a cache was trash, he’d remove it and have it archived for a new icon. More that he’d hunt for archived caches that weren’t removed.
Of course, these “finds” would have to be separate from Finds, like the challenges are now. Otherwise, people would cry foul, I’m sure. But, there’s a precedent in those challenges!
coopsquared is right on the button with what I wanted to say. It’s about an already archived geocache that is still out there as geotrash. And funny enough I almost made reference to the TB rescue site as well.
Timely post. Today we archived a couple of our caches that are no longer found. We trekked for a couple of hours picking up caches and placing a few new ones that might get people interested in a bit of a hike in this neck of the woods.
When we first started caching we were very wary of stepping on someone’s toes by taking a trashed cache out with us. But now, after all these years, and getting to know fellow cachers we aren’t quite as quiet. If I can’t fix it, I send a note, if it’s trash I remove it and then send a note. And sadly many times this depends upon who the cache owner is.
There are lots of containers out there I’m sure that need to be removed for various reasons. Making it more worthwhile than just saving the planet might get some of them out of the woods.
We also recycle, rather than buy more plastic for cache containers, we reuse something waterproof.
There is an old post of mine here about caching in Bathurst, and being proactive when it comes to geotrash……
Your old post is on this thread
https://www.cacheupnb.com/unmaintained-caches-honestly-people-cachers-tell-me-should-i-just-shut-up/
GCQGE5 = geotrash
I’ve been meaning to go back and take it out. Haven’t gotten around to it yet.
Yep – I found that one too and took a picture for credit… Funny thing was, I was already down the highway when it dawned on me that I could have replaced it with the container in my trunk…
I agree with that one, HMs.
Yes GeoTrash is a problem but why does the problem magical disappear once it is archived? Sure as a responsible Geocachers we would love to believe every container is removed once it is archived but I can assure you this is not what is being done. Too many times I see comments like this one “I have been instructed to archive this cache. I have moved away and am no longer able to fix this one up. If someone finds the remains, please pick them up. Thank you!”. The problem is no one will ever see those instructions once the cache is archived! I have an issue with many of us believing that GeoLitter is acceptable because it has been made invisible. If we believe littering is bad then why is there not an effort being made to remove archived caches? There is a simple fix… Once you are no longer willing to maintain your cache there should be another option other than archiving or leaving it as GeoTrash. Much like what Nemodidi said we and the reviewers should be able to put our caches up for removal and once it is removed we get a highly prized smiley.
Have to agree with Teta. Sometimes a cache needs to be archieved… why not have a setting where the owner can select “Remove cache”. The next finder would have a signal to find the cache, then remove it so it can be archieved without leaving it to rot.
I think we’re onto something here. Zor, you were looking to raise funds for the site: polish the idea, and sell it to groundspeak! 🙂
But joke aside, I am happy that many of us realise that long forgotten archived caches create litter, and that, besides the environmental factor, it has the potential to create a bad aura for geocaching.
I continue to think that there is a need for something to be done, the question is, what would be the best approach.
I completely agree!
Recently I found a cache of a certain person who is notorious for bad caches. I left it only because I know others have been hunting for it so it is an active site. I would hate to be the one that removed it resulting in some needless DNF’s for others. That being said, if I had a replacement container, I would have gladly donated it since the location was an ideal one to continue to have a cache.
I really like the idea Incepit had of some way to notify the cachers that if they are on the hunt for it, they can remove it with the CO’s blessing.
One way we “could” try for now is use the hint section and just enter “please remove”. Most of us use paperless GPS’ so would get the new hint on a download and know to remove or at least come prepared for maintenance.
I can tell you for certain that you can remove any Fantastic Wizard caches, she told me that she is not caching anymore and doesn’t mind them being removed if needed. I would like to assume that the same goes for Energizer Bunny as well as they are a couple and he doesn’t do any maintenance either. #1Scout seems to still be interested in having caches out there and has some great spots but does not maintain them either so I can’t speak for him but I would not hesitate to put a needs archived on one of his if it needed it and take it out, same as Funky Nassau. At times it seems to be a sticky subject but ultimately we need to try to keep the geotrash out of play.
Haha
I have an idea. If you were to place caches in rural areas during the spring before the leaves come out you can find all the road side garbage piles from yesteryear and place a combo cache/cito, to claim the cache you have to remove a piece of old garbage and dispose of it properly. when the last piece of trash is gone, remove the cache as well and notify the owner the area is pristine again.
It’s amazing where in many spots Zor placed caches for his story teller series where a bag or three were tossed out a few yards from the road. We are talking garbage from 5 or more years ago as all the cans were quite rusty and the were lots of old style bottles. I wouldn’t want to try to figure out the logistics of cleaning up all this old trash. It’s unreal.