If caching in Bathurst please read!
Just wanted to post a quick heads up to anyone planning on caching in the Bathurst area. There are a large number of older caches in the area that owned by *********. He is no longer in the area and hasn’t had a find in over 3 years, although he still maintains an account. A cache I went to in April of 2009 (GCY1ZM) had a number of logs mentioning the container being damaged beyond repair and contents in rough shape-since 2007!!! After a year of no maintenance and no acknowledgement of the need to look after the cache, I took it upon myself to remove the cache and force the cache reviewers to archive it. I also posted a “needs maintenance” log on another cache that was full of water and needed repair. Almost immediately, there were notes posted to the effect that the owner was no longer living in the area and couldn’t maintain the caches anymore. The quote from the owner reads: “its needs maintenance and i’m don’t in town anymore.”
To me, this brings a bad reputation on our sport. If we are the owners of the cache, it is our responsibility to look after maintaining them. Now, by just archiving them without removing them, he has left junk in the woods.
I have a feeling that any maintenance logs on any of his caches in Bathurst will result in archiving without removal of the cache. If you are in the Bathurst area caching, and you happen to find a cache that needs maintenance, I would recommend pulling it and writing a “needs archiving” log. Otherwise, you’ll just be leaving garbage in the woods.
But, on the bright side, there is a new cacher called Greybeast who is putting out some excellent hides in very interesting places around Bathurst. Snagged 3 FTFs on his caches this weekend.
Thanks for the time.
Mark aka forestfauna
I took out the specific name of the owner of these caches since it can be obtained via the one cache you gave. When it comes to criticism of other cachers (whether it be true or not) I’d like to try and keep names out of posts since they appear on the main page. If anyone has an issue with that, please do not hesitate to post a comment.
I met the cacher in question once when I first started, he was a good cacher with some good hides. Unfortunately he moved probably thinking he would be able to return to maintain or would get help, it seems he may have moved on. We found a few of his caches when we went up there last month and most were still good and ok to leave, a couple were questionable or missing. I agree that if they are wet, broken or missing they should be removed, not fixed or replaced as that would just prolong the inevitable. If it is a good place then someone else will have an opportunity to hide a new cache in the area.
Zor I agree, we should try to leave names out when possible, I have complained many times about some cachers lack of maintenance but will not name them on here, you can ask me in person and I will tell you 🙂
I have not been writing here for a while, I guess I “wrote myself out of words” with this Shakespeare thing. But tonight I am back in force, worse than ever.
Forestfauna, you are the best! I so agree to take the trash out. Although since I’ve decided so, I haven’t found any geotrash to get rid of, which is a very good sign. Well not entirely true. The weekend that just passed, we went to a great cornboil geocaching event put on by a geocacher named *** in the **** (oh yeah, it’s positive, so the name is Mud in the Face, cacher of the month on maritime-geocaching.com). Just before the event, we went for the closest cache (less than 30m from the event site), and found a very crappy cache. When we came back a cacher told us that the owner of that cache found one, put one out and hasn’t cached since. The cacher I was talking to told me I should not take it to the garbage as there was a lot of traffic for this cache. I just agreed without giving it more thought and I did not change the container as I did not have one with me. Now that I am here writing, I am telling myself I should have taken the trash out.
The thing is, those cachers who are not caching any longer (or at least in the vicinity) should not mind at all. Even more so, I bet that the cacher you just talked about would be thankful for someone picking up after an old run down cache. I am not annoyed at those cachers, there can be tons of good reasons why they cannot go for those caches as is the case here (I am still annoyed at ACTIVE geocachers who have hundreds of caches out there who don’t give a ****[sorry] about maintaining their caches).
So again for the good of the sport, I think those should be taken out, a ‘needs archive’ log written that also explains what you just did. Those are my intentions now, and yes, I will do so when I return to the Bathurst area for caching.
On the other hand, I also from time to time do massive maintenance on caches that I personally believe should be restored. I did that for a friend, and I will do it for others for caches that I like (and no I am not talking about changing a log book or doing minor maintenance which we all should do, I am talking about changing the whole container with all new SWAG: MAJOR maintenance).
All in all, I adhere to your ‘religion’ right away (or are you just joining mine?).
And yes, on a positive note, I see that there is a bunch of new caches popping up in that area. Great!
In regards to Zor’s comment, I think it’s a good idea to exclude the name when it’s a negative critique, as like he said, there are plenty of ways to figure out their identity, even just by contacting the writer.
Yours truly,
Grandpa Simpson (aka Nemodidi)
How appropriate that this should be posted today.
We did some caching in Gatineau today and came upon an old cache that had once been a quality cache. The cache cantainer was broken, had no cover, and had been placed in a garbage bag that is now full of holes. All the swag was dirty and-0r rusty. The beautiful log book had gotten so wet that it was all stuck together and was sticky and gooey. Everything was gross.
It was so bad that we threw it all in the garbage and suggested that it be archived or replaced. The cache had a number of needs maintenance logs so we placed a needs archiving log.
Within 30 minutes of our log, the owner archived it. I am not sure if he appreciated that we threw out his cache. TOO BAD.
Maybe we should be doing this more often.
Here is the cache
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=32b837e9-a06f-4dcf-ac83-f2a3f3f38de0&log=y&decrypt=
It’s hard to believe there is a problem with the cachers out of Bathurst. There must be something in the water… I do find it is strange to be singling out just one individual though. I can think of a dozen individuals with un-maintained caches in Bathurst including myself. Life throws you a curve ball sometimes and you vote NDP or come work for Irving…LOL
It’s just too bad that many of these peoples concerns and wishes for their caches were made known in one of the other half a dozen regional discussion areas. Unfortunately, This is really sad since the same cachers we speak poorly of today where the same cachers we encourage and admired in the past. I wonder how long it will be when we are all turning on our beloved cached of today when their health and finances turn for the worst?
However, it’s not that we dislike these people… We are frustrated and since gc.com sweeps “geotrash” under the rug and has CITOs to make us feel all warm and fuzzy we point fingers at one another. The game allows such a situation to happen and they could minimize it in many ways. Don’t hate the player hate the game I say!
Anyways, I won’t get into it since it all has been said before. I guess since I’m still healthy and financially stable I’ll be archiving all my caches before I become the next victim. Don’t worry I’ll be sure to pickup all my caches unlike so many others…
Thoughts and opinions are subject to change without notice.
We have 350 caches out there and I think we do a pretty good job at maintenance, although sometimes it may take a while to get to certain caches. It bugs me when someone finds a cache and puts a needs maintenance log because the sheet is wet. Couldn’t they have replaced the sheet for us? Aren’t we all in this together?
That brings me to the discussion here. If a dedicated cacher has 300 caches in an area and then gets transferred somewhere else, what should the person do? Assuming the caches are in good condition, it makes no sense to remove them. So I guess they leave them there. Maybe get them adopted. As the caches get into trouble (as they likely will over time), logs start reflecting the problem and maybe a needs maintenance log appears. The owner is not in a position to remove or fix the cache, so what is to be done? Perhaps a note on the log asking the next person to remove it. Or maybe at some point ask someone to remove it. Also as cachers do we not have a responsibility to remove garbage that is in the woods?
As Tetagoucher says, it is not fair to just blame the owner. We are all in this together.
I think that if an owner places a cache for people to find, it is their responsibility to insure that the cache is maintained. You accept the requirement of having to make sure your caches are in good shape and not just “trash in the woods”. I think it is somewhat lazy to put out caches and then expect other folks to do the maintenance for you because we’re all playing the game together. That being said, it’s good for the local caching community to try and help each other out when they can as that builds a good rapport amongst cachers.
To your issue about a wet log sheet Pa, if I have spares with me, or even just paper, I would replace the log for you, but if I didn’t have anything with me that would serve as a good replacement, I would either do a NM log or just mention it in my find. That’s what I would want done to my caches so I try my best to do the same. My concern comes in when owners EXPECT others to do the maintenance for them because they either can’t or are just too lazy. For me, my opinion is that if you are not willing to do maintenance on caches when they need it, then you shouldn’t be hiding them. I’ve archived a few of mine because I realized I was not willing to maintain them and it was not in good form to keep them active.
The issue of absentee cache owners is a little different. My opinion, and this is mine only, is that if a cache owner is not able to maintain their own caches, then they should 1) Put them up for adoption, 2) Archive them or 3) Have some other means to have the caches maintained for them since they no longer live in that area. If the CO puts in place a means to keep the caches in good standing order, despite not living near them anymore, then I think there’s no issue with them keeping the caches. If the owner just up and moves, and then EXPECTS the caching community to keep the caches there because they should, or because they’ve been there awhile, then I think they should be archived.
I don’t see any issues with cachers helping other cachers out with their hides, but I also don’t think it should be entirely my responsibility to maintain other people’s caches.
Well for once I don’t agree with you Zor.
I dont expect others to maintain my caches, However, I carry a few items with me to help out others caches when I am out caching, and I know many other cachers do too. It just frustrating to get a log telling me the cache needs a new log sheet or the log sheet is wet. Cachers love to go out and find a series of caches but they have to realize that there was a time and expense to put those caches out and it would be nice if they could do something simple like replacing a log sheet in order to help out the hiders.
With regard to cachers who move, I do not think archiving is the best solution. The cacher contributed a lot to the caching community and all of a sudden has to move. There may not be enough time to go and retrieve all the caches so it wouldn’t be right to archive them and leave them there.
In an earlier post on this topic, I mentined that I removed a cache that I found yesterday here in Gatineau. I dont think we should be afraid of doing that. Problesm with caches affects people’s opinion of geocaching, so I think we all have a responsibility to ensure the hobby doesnt have a black eye.
One of the great things about geocaching is that it wont work if people arent doing things for others. It needs the caching community. We all spend time and money hiding caches to entertain others. We plan and host events for others. We host websites for others. we share expertise and techie stuff with others, we get together with others and take trips together. I agree that the cache owner is responsible for their caches but cooperation makes it all work better.
Reading this posting really made me see red.
First of all the cacher involved is a great friend of mine, who I have cached with several times, and has done
a lot of work to promote GeoCaching.
Shouldn’t the cachers check the cache pages of the caches they are going to find and help fix a cache they are going to be going to anyway as thanks to the cacher who has hidden it for them.
I always carry spare log sheets.
Yesterday Tiger Tracker did a Bathurst cache run.
I replaced a whole cache GCWRA7 Troll Treasure.
Also a micro for Road Trip #2 Sormany To Islnd Lake.
The first cache had a needs maintence while the second was destroyed
by aninals. Replaced a chewed cache in Ormoncto where the last 9
logs posted of wet log and cache container chewed by animals.
It also had a needs maintenance log.
Isn’t that what were suppossed to do to thank the cachers who hid them there for us to find.
Rev Slippery replaced one of mine last week and I thank him for it.
Isn’t it better for the finder to fix it or replace it as he is going there anyway to find it than the hide who would have to waste gas and time to do it.
Here is what I always tell cacher to do if they find one of mine in bad shape. Take it with you and trash it. Email me and then I will decide whether to replace it or archive it.
If I archive it I don’t need to make the trip back and if I do want to keep it I will temporary archive it til I do.
I don’t want my caches in the woods if they are trash but I would appriciate the help.
Also a note: If I find a really bad cache and trash it, I won’t put that in the log. I trashed a cache once in Jacket River that the container was broken , the log sheet soaked and the contents were moldy.
I trashed it because it was at a lovely falls and thought that it was holding a spot for another cacher to put a cache there and bring people to this spot. The cache owner wasn’t active for over 2 years.
I emailed Cache Agent about it and she gave me heck – Said I was stealing and not to trash someones cache without their permission.
Because of this I later found another cache of this hider that was shot up by a shotgun and now trash and I left it in the woods.
Now if I find one like that, (they are real bad), and I don’t have a cache with me I will trash them and email the owner.
Thank the hiders lets not dump on them !!!
Just my 2 cents worth, and I guess that’s all they are worth.
I’m not trying to downgrade anyone’s contributions to the caching community by posting this note. But let’s be clear: that cache that I found was garbage, and had been for 3 years, with no email note from the owner, no disabling, nothing. Perhaps it was a bit of my own fault for not reading previous logs closer the first time I visited the cache, but aren’t we all guilty of that? I have no problem with replacing a wet log, but these caches in Bathurst are in old ice cream containers, and are leaking so that everything is beyond salvagable, or broken beyond repair. It is not my responsiblity to replace everything including the container. I can’t afford to do that for every crappy cache I find in the woods that a cacher has abandoned.
The point of my entire comment is that this particular cacher appears to be archiving any cache that is his in the Bathurst area that receives a “needs maintenance” log. So if the cache is bad (ie. more than a wet log sheet), take it with you and post a “needs archiving” log. There appear to be a few new cachers in the northern area of the province and I would hate for them to be discourage from the sport because of a few bad experiences.
I gather that we are ultimately all on the same page here. I bow down to all what have been said. Let’s do what is good for the sport and help each other out. If we can change a log, let’s do it. If for some reason you cannot, write a need maintenance or a note that may prompt the next cacher to bring a new log or whatever else it may need. If you want to do Major maintenance do it, AND if it’s time to take the trash out, Do it! And report it in a need archive log. I guess it comes down to common sense. I agree with both views that we are all in this together and we should do our part, but this should not take away an owner’s responsibilities. “So it shall be written, so it shall be done”.
and Forestfauna, I totally heard your concern don’t worry. I did not get that you wanted to downgrade this cacher’s contribution, you want to do what is good for the sport, as we all do, and that is great.
Amen. Do the right thing and try to help out when you can. By doing that, we make the sport more enjoyable for everyone.
Perhaps I should have just stayed out of this conversation as it seems this is a touchy subject.
My opinion has always been that cachers should try and help out other cachers when they can and in any capacity they can within their own limits. That includes replacing log sheets, cache repair, and sometimes even full on cache replacement. I think that anything you can do to help out a fellow cacher is typically looked on as a give back or thank you to them. I think this is what we all agree we should be doing. It makes the sport look better and let’s face it, it’s just the right thing to do.
What I get concerned about, is folks going out and hiding a bunch of caches, and then ignoring any issues that come up with them simply because they figure it’s not their responsibility to maintain them, it’s the community’s. When they shrug their shoulders at NM logs or comments about caches that are clearly in bad shape, or in bad locations, or whatever the case may be. They do whatever they need to get a cache listed then walk away from it. THOSE are the people I have issue with.
Yes, I think the community is definitely responsible for *helping* to keep caches active and in good shape, but I think there is a fine line between the community helping you, and letting them do your job for you.
Pa, you said that a lot of time and effort, and sometimes expense, goes into going out and hiding a lot of caches in a series and that it would be nice for them to replace a log if one is needed. I agree completely. I’ve had a lot of people help me with the maintenance on my Story Teller series and I am SO grateful for it. You’ve probably had folks help you with your Scoudouc or Malakoff series (and many others). But when YOU hide a series like that, YOUR intention is to make sure the cache remains in good shape. You want to bring folks to that trail or location so you hid caches there and thusly will be responsible about it.
To me that’s the difference. You care about your hides and you want to make sure they remain so others can find them. Not everyone is like that and it is those who don’t care that I have an issue with, not the ones who take the time and effort to give us great caches and great locations.
When I find a cache in need of help or a new log sometimes I stop to think of who the owner is. If it is a cacher who is responsible and does regular maintenance I will gladly replace it, if it someone who does nothing and has multiple caches that require work I am more likely to leave it alone and let the logs pile up hoping that it will encourage the owner to get out to fix or archive it. I don’t like taking matters into my own hands and forcing someone but sometimes that is what is needed and some people are more than willing to tell a cache owner that their hide is garbage and remove it.
I also think that Groundspeak should have the ability to stop owners with puzzles and multis missing parts and multiple disabled caches from hiding and LOGGING finds until they fix them or provide a reasonable explanation as to why they can’t. There are caches in Moncton that have been disabled since April. There needs to be consequences for leaving garbage out there or misleading people that there is a cache out there that isn’t. How bad does the owner want or need that guardrail cache to be there it they wait months to fix it and it is in the middle of the city?
One day a little girl was walking home from school eating her favourite Ben & Jerry’s ice cream. When she was done she replaced the cover and tossed it to one side of the path . The container rolled and became lodged against her neighbours favourite rose bush. To the little girls surprise the neighbour had spotted her and asked “what do you think you are doing!” The girl continued to walk along and this enraged the neighbour. “Come here young lady and pick up your garbage” the neighbour cried. The little girl went back to where the container was and dropped her book bag . She reached under the bush and got the container and then reached into her bag for some paper. She wrote a on the sheet and then stuffed it inside the container. along with a few old broken toys she had in her bag. She then closed the container and placed it back where it had rolled. The neighbour looked puzzled and came over to investigate. In the mean time the girl started accruing satelites with her new gps receiver. When the neighbour reached the site she was quite upset and yelled at the girl. “Pick up your garbage before I tell you parents“. “What garbage?” the young girl replied. “That ice cream container under the bush” the neighbour stressed.. “Oh” the girl laughed. “that might be garbage to you but in my family we call this Geocaching.” “ A what??” the neighbour said. The girl explained that it was part if a game that is played all over the world and there are thousands of official game pieces just like this one dotting the landscape…
This is certainly not what we will be teaching our little girl what geocaching is all about!
Well, I hate to say “I told you so” but, I told you so!
Caching up in Bathurst this long holiday weekend, I found two caches by the individual I mentioned in my first post. One cache was in very poor shape (and had been for a few years) so I took it upon myself to remove the cache; the other was damaged but salvagable. After posting a maintenance log on both caches, the owner archived both. Essentially, turning them into trash in the woods. I am disappointed in myself that I didn’t pick up the second cache and bring it back with me. The cache logs can be viewed at GCWW79 and GCJQ3G.
I can’t wait till you start finding my caches up there…LOL! I feel your frustration though since I’ve been whining about this topic long before you started playing. Unfortunately, if you make a stink about it you might find yourself getting banned… Also many don’t feel the same way you do and it’s landing on deaf ears. Remember geotrash does not exist and that’s why we archive them (never to be seen again). You may also find out that many of out top players wanted it this way and unintentionally caused this situation. I guess if we started to worry about his 100 + caches out there we would have to worry about the other several thousand in New Brunswick alone. I know you are new to this and it will be shocking when you look into it some more as you continue to play. Guess If he would have archived them before you found them there would be no problem like in the rest of the Province… ahah!
However, if you want to start pointing fingers at someone knew I can show you the way? Good place to start is to look into some of the first New Brunswick geocachers. If I remember it correctly a Reviewer “Persuaded” a particular cacher to archive many of his caches when he moved away. Many of them were bad but many were great and now they are just rotting out there. Oh well to bad! That’s Geocaching…
On a positive note I believe yogurt and ice-cream containers decompose faster than Ammo cans and Lock & Lock.